CARRERA. & gt; & gt; UN HOMBRE NEGRO, CONOCES LAS REGLAS. & gt; & gt; ESTA INTERACCIÓN ME PREOCUPÓ. SOLEDAD: ¿HAY OTRA VOZ? ¿HAY ALGUNA MANERA DE ABRIR LA CONVERSACIÓN? & gt; & gt; CONDICIONES REALES DE CÓMO ES SER NEGRO EN AMÉRICA. SOLEDAD: NO NECESITO QUE LAS PERSONAS SEAN SUAVES, NECESITO EMPUJARLAS PARA QUE SEAN AUTÉNTICAS. & gt; & gt; ES UNA CUESTIÓN MORAL. & gt; & gt; CUANTO MÁS NEGROS MIRAN, MÁS MUERTE DONDE ESTABAN. & gt; & gt; ¿SÓLO ESTAMOS CONECTADOS PARA SER TENSIONADOS? ♪ SOLEDAD: SOY SOLEDAD O'BRIEN. BIENVENIDOS AL "TOUR DE ESCUCHA DE HECHOS". GRACIAS POR DARNOS TU VALIOSO TIEMPO QUE SABES ASÍ COMO YO, QUE NUESTRO PAÍS ESTÁ LUCHANDO QUIÉNES SOMOS Y QUÉ Dirá LA HISTORIA SOBRE NUESTRA RESPUESTA A LOS EVENTOS QUE CAMBIARON VIDAS DE 2020 ¿Dirá que ABORDAMOS LOS TEMAS DE LA RAZA Y LA JUSTICIA SOCIAL CON HONESTIDAD Y ABERTURA? ¿Dirá que abrazamos el llamado a la dignidad humana y miramos a las personas con compasión, empatía o, al menos, tolerancia? EN "CUESTIÓN DE HECHOS", NO TUDAMOS DE CONVERSACIONES DIFÍCILES. HACEMOS UN PUNTO DE TENERLOS. Y ESTA SERIE DE TOURS DE ESCUCHA NO SERÁ DIFERENTE. AQUÍ TENDREMOS CONVERSACIONES REALES Y DURAS SOBRE TEMAS DE RAZA Y JUSTICIA SOCIAL, EMPEZANDO CON BIA VAMOS A LA RAÍZ DEL DESAFÍO QUE ENFRENTAMOS, DESCUBRIENDO EL PREJUICIO OCULTO QUE DA FORMA A LO QUE VEMOS, PENSAMOS Y HACEMOS. PERO COMENZAMOS POR EL COMIENZO. CONOCE AL DR. JENNIFER EBERHARDT, AUTORA DEL LIBRO, " ESTA ES UNA HISTORIA DE QUE ESTABA EN UN AVIÓN CON MI HIJO CUANDO ÉL TENÍA CINCO AÑOS Y MI HIJO ESTABA REALMENTE EMOCIONADO POR ESTAR EN ESTE AVIÓN CON MAMÁ LE GUSTA MIRAR A TODOS LOS ALREDEDORES Y ESTÁ MIRANDO A TODOS. Y VE A ESTE HOMBRE Y DICE: EY, ESE TIPO SE VE COMO PAPÁ. Y YO MIRO AL HOMBRE Y EL NO SE PARECE EN NADA COMO MI MARIDO, COMO NADA EN TODO. CORRECTO. ASÍ QUE EMPEZO A MIRAR ALREDEDOR EN EL AVIÓN Y ME DÍ CUENTA DE QUE ESTE HOMBRE ERA EL ÚNICO HOMBRE NEGRO EN EL AVIÓN. Y PENSÉ, BIEN. BIEN. VOY A TENER QUE TENER UNA PEQUEÑA HABLACIÓN CON MI HIJO SOBRE CÓMO SE VE TODO EL NEGRO. ASÍ QUE ME ESTOY PREPARADO PARA HABLAR. PERO ENTONCES HAGO UNA PAUSA PORQUE ME DIJE QUE LOS NIÑOS VEN EL MUNDO DE UNA FORMA DIFERENTE A LOS ADULTOS, ¿ Cierto ? NO HAN ESTADO ACONDICIONADO UN AÑO DESPUÉS año para ver, ya sabes, la gente de manera segura. Y así que pensé que tal vez él VIO alguna semejanza ahí que yo no, ¿verdad? Y ASÍ qUE DE CIDÉ ANTES DE DAR UNA CONFERENCIA A MI HIJO QUE YO Iba A MIRAR A ESTE HOMBRE Y ESTOY BUSCANDO CUALQUIER semejanza con mi marido. ASÍ QUE MIRO SU ALTURA Y SU PESO Y SUS CARACTERÍSTICAS FACIALES QUE USTED CONOCE, COLOR DE PIEL, TODO, SIN SIMBOLAR. Miro su cabello. Y ESTE HOMBRE TENÍA LARGOS DREADLOCKS FLUYENDO POR SU ESPALDA Y MI ESPOSO SE AFEITA LA CABEZA, ¿Cierto? ASÍ QUE ESTOY MIRANDO A MI HIJO, ESTOY COMO, VAS A HABLAR, ¿Cierto? ALGUNOS ESTOY LISTO PARA DAR UNA CONFERENCIA. PERO ANTES DE QUE PODRÍA DECIR NADA, MI HIJO, ME MIRA. DICE: "ESPERO QUE EL HOMBRE NO ROBA EL AVIÓN. Y YO DIJE:" ¿QUÉ? ¿Qué has dicho?" Y él dijo de nuevo, dice, 'Bueno, espero que él no robar el avión.' Y dije, 'bueno, ya sabes, papá ¿No ROB un avión' Y HE. Dijo: "SÍ, SÍ, LO SÉ" Y YO DIJE, "BIEN, ¿POR QUÉ DICÍAS ESO?" Y ME MIRÓ CON ESTE ROSTRO REALMENTE TRISTE Y DIJO: " NO SÉ POR QUÉ DIJE ESO. NO SÉ POR QUÉ ESTABA PENSANDO ESO. "QUE LA ASOCIACIÓN ENTRE LA NEGRIDAD Y EL CRIMEN HIZO SU CAMINO EN LA MENTE DE MI CINCO AÑOS Y SE HACE EN TODAS NUESTRAS MENTES. SOLEDAD: DURANTE ESTA HORA, PREGUNTAMOS USTED HACER UNAS COSAS. ESCUCHAR. INCLUSO CUANDO LA HABLACIÓN SE VUELVA INCÓMODA. TENGA EN CUENTA LAS OPINIONES DE LOS DEMÁS. OBJETIVO DE UNA MEJOR COMPRENSIÓN DE LOS PUNTOS DE VISTA DE LOS DEMÁS. ENVÍENOS SUS COMENTARIOS O PREGUNTA LES TRATAMOS AL FINAL DEL MUESTRE, CON LA AYUDA DE UNO DE NUESTROS EXPERTOS. EN CASO DE QUE SE ESTÉ PREGUNTANDO LO QUE ESTÁ SUCEDIENDO ENTRE AHORA Y EL FIN, UNA EXPERIENCIA SOCIAL QUE NOS AYUDARÁ A TODOS A VER NUESTRO SESGO, COMEDIAN TRAE CROWDER, CONOCIDO POR SU MANIFIESTO LIBERAL REDNECK-- CON SU OPINIÓN A NUESTROS TIEMPOS. UNA MIRADA A LOS ESTEREOTIPOS A TRAVÉS DE PELÍCULAS E IMÁGENES ANTIGUAS, Y UNA CONVERSACIÓN CON EL GANADOR DEL OSCAR JOHN RIDLEY. ADEMÁS , RAPPER GENESIS SE ENCUENTRA EN CÓMO LA BANDERA CONFEDERADA CONVIERTE SU ACTUACIÓN EN PROTESTA HAY MUCHA HORA. . PARA MIRAR MÁS DE CERCA EL PAPEL QUE JUEGA EL SESGO EN NUESTROS DAY LIVES, INVITAMOS A SIETE PERSONAS DE TODO EL PAÍS A PARTICIPAR DE UNA EXPERIENCIA SOCIAL ÚNICA UTILIZANDO VIDEOS VIRALES QUE CAPTURARON SESIONES RACIALES EN CÁMARA, SOLICITAMOS A LOS PARTICIPANTES MIRAR Y COMPARTIR SUS REACCIONES A TRAVÉS DE UNA SALA DE CHAT NO PRIVADA DONDE NO SEA LA SALA DE CHAT PRIVADA. UNO A OTRO. SIMULANDO NUESTRA COMUNICACIÓN EN LAS REDES SOCIALES, LOS PARTICIPANTES TUVIERON QUE EXPRESAR SUS SENTIMIENTOS A TRAVÉS DE TEXTO SOLO SIN SABER NADA SOBRE LA PERSONA DETRÁS DE LOS COMENTARIOS. CUANDO LOS VIDEOS TERMINARON, SE UNIERON A UNA LLAMADA DE VIDEO VIRTUAL DONDE CONTINUARON SU CONVERSACIÓN CARA A CARA. ESTO ES LO QUE PASÓ. & gt; & gt; HOLA A TODOS, SÉ QUE NO PUEDEN VER NI OÍRSE EL UNO AL OTRO, PERO ¿PUEDEN OÍRME? De acuerdo, siempre que estés listo, puedes rodar ese primer video, por favor. AMY COOPER: ¿POR FAVOR PARARÍA? SEÑOR, LE PIDO QUE PARE. CHRISTIAN COOPER: POR FAVOR, NO SE ACERCA DE MÍ. AMY COOPER: SEÑOR, LE PIDO QUE DEJE DE GRABARME. CHRISTIAN COOPER: POR FAVOR, NO SE ACERCA DE MÍ. AMY COOPER: POR FAVOR, APAGUE SU TELÉFONO. CHRISTIAN COOPER: POR FAVOR, NO SE ACERCA DE MÍ. POR FAVOR, LLAME A LA POLICÍA. POR FAVOR LLAME A LA POLICÍA. AMY COOPER: VOY A DECIRLE QUE HAY UN HOMBRE AFROAMERICANO QUE AMENAZA MI VIDA. CHRISTIAN COOPER: POR FAVOR DÍGALE LO QUE LE GUSTE. AMY COOPER: EXCUSA, LO SIENTO, ESTOY EN EL RAMBLE. Y HAY UN HOMBRE, AFROAMERICANO, TIENE CASCO DE BICICLETA, ME ESTÁ GRABANDO Y AMENAZANDO A MI PERRO YA MÍ. HAY UN HOMBRE AFROAMERICANO. ESTOY EN CENTRAL PARK. ME ESTÁ GRABANDO UNA AMENAZANDO A MI MISMO YA MI PERRO. ME GUSTARÍA - LO SIENTO, NO PUEDO ESCUCHARLO. ESTOY AMENAZADO POR UN HOMBRE EN EL RAMBLE. ENVÍE A LA POLICÍA INMEDIATAMENTE. ESTOY EN CENTRAL PARK EN EL RAMBLE. NO LO SÉ. CHRISTIAN COOPER: GRACIAS MODERADOR: GRACIAS A TODOS. AHORA VAMOS A REPRODUCIR EL OTRO VIDEO. & gt; & gt; RELAX BRO. ¿QUÉ TE PASA? & gt; & gt; NADIE ESTÁ EN EL AGUA. RELAJARSE. & gt; & gt; HE ESTADO AQUÍ TODA LA VIDA. YO VIVO AQUI. No te acerques a mí. & gt; & gt; RESPALDALO. AQUÍ ME ACOSO UN GRUPO DE HOMBRES NEGROS. & gt; & gt; GUAU. [RISA] & gt; & gt; ALÉJATE. NO, TE FALTAS. GUAU. ¿ES ESTE EL DEPARTAMENTO DE POLICÍA? OKAY. & gt; & gt; GUAU. & gt; & gt; TENGO GENTE INTENTANDO PONER UN BARCO EN EL AGUA QUE ES ILEGAL. TENGO UN BARCO AQUÍ. TENGO DERECHO LEGAL A PONER MI BARCO EN EL AGUA. ELLOS NO. & gt; & gt; ¿CUAL ES SU NOMBRE SEÑOR? CUAL ES TU NOM NO ESTAMOS AQUI PARA PONER UN BARCO EN EL AGUA. ESTAMOS COLGANTANDO. USTED NO TIENE EVIDENCIA DE ESO. & gt; & gt; VINIERON AQUÍ PARA PONER UN BARCO EN EL AGUA, AL parecer. & gt; & gt; ¿PERO CÓMO LO SABES? & gt; & gt; HOLA A TODOS. LOS VIDEOS TERMINARON. AHORA SE VAN A CONOCER. & gt; & gt; ENCANTADO DE CONOCERLOS A TODOS. & gt; & gt; HOLA. & gt; & gt; ES UN PLACER. & gt; & gt; Eso fue divertido, no lo esperaba. & gt; & gt; ESTO ES LO QUE ESPERA Y ESPERA, UN GRUPO DIVERSO. & gt; & gt; USTED SABE, TODOS VEMOS ESTOS VIDEOS Y ESTAMOS INDIGNADOS POR ELLOS. OKAY. Y NO CREO QUE DEBES SER NEGRO PARA SER INDIGNADO POR LA MUJER EN EL PARQUE O ESE TIPO. & gt; & gt; ESA SITUACIÓN ME LLEGÓ A CASA, PORQUE HE ESTADO EN MI PROPIA CASA Y LA PERSONA ENTRÓ PARA ENTREGAR ACEITE Y PEDIRME QUE EL PROPIETARIO SALGA Y FIRME. ¿DERECHO? Y luego, cuando se dio cuenta de que yo era el propietario, miró la casa y pensó que yo realmente no pertenecía. ASÍ QUE PARA MÍ, LA EXPERIENCIA DE VER ESTE VIDEO, PARA MÍ, ESTA ACTIVANDO LAS EXPERIENCIAS QUE HE TENIDO DESDE PROBABLEMENTE TENGO 18 AÑOS. & gt; & gt; PERO CREO QUE ESTÁS TOCANDO UNA VERDADERA PIEDRA ANGULAR DEL PROBLEMA TODO EN AMÉRICA NOS ENSEÑA A TODOS QUE EL MIEDO A UN HOMBRE NEGRO ES RAZONABLE & gt; & gt; SE TRATA DE COMPORTAMIENTO CRIMINALIZADOR QUE NO ES PENAL. TENEMOS QUE DEJAR DE MIRAR COSAS QUE SON LEGALES PARA TODOS Y DECIR, ¿SABES QUÉ? NO QUIERO QUE ESE GRUPO HAGA ESO SU & gt; & gt; Y PARECE QUE TENEMOS ESTE COMPORTAMIENTO DONDE ESTAMOS DISPUESTOS A ROMPER LAS REGLAS CUANDO NOS ES CONVENIENTE. Y CUANDO ALGUIEN NOS PIDE QUE SEGUIMOS LAS REGLAS, ENTONCES EMPEZAMOS A OBTENER ABRASIV & gt; & gt; NO ES UNA COSA BLANCA, UNA COSA NEGRA. ES UNA CÓMO LO TRATAMOS COMO AMERICANOS, COMO UN PUEBLO EN LA DEMOCRACIA MÁS EXITOSA EN LA TIERRA. & gt; & gt; ES MUY DIFÍCIL QUE LAS PERSONAS QUE HAN SIDO DESENFRANQUIZADAS DESDE EL DÍA QUE LLEGARON A ESTE PAÍS, O AL MENOS SUS ANCESTADORES LLEGARON A ESTE PAÍS, ACEPTAR ESTA IDEA DE SER AMERICANO. Y HASTA QUE PODEMOS VER QUE ES UNA COSA NEGRA Y BLANCA, NO PODEMOS DESHACER NINGÚN SISTEMA. & gt; & gt; NO ESTOY DICIENDO QUE NO DEBEMOS HABLAR DE LAS DISPARIDADES RACIALES ENTRE BLANCOS Y NEGROS, HISPANOS, BLANCOS, ASIÁTICOS Y TODOS LOS DEMÁS EN LA MEZCLA. PERO ME GUSTARÍA PENSAR QUE EL FUTURO DICE QUE PODEMOS HABLAR DE ESTOS TEMAS & gt; & gt; Entonces, cuando pienso en eso, estoy cansado de que me guste educar a los blancos en el trabajo, qué leer, con quién hablar. CUANDO EMPEZÉ A PENSAR EN ESAS COSAS, ME ENCUENTRO DESAFIANTE CUANDO GENTE QUE NO SE VE COMO YO DIGA QUE TENGO LA RESPONSABILIDAD DE CREAR UN CAMBIO SOCIAL CUANDO EN REALIDAD TODA MI VIDA HE ESTADO AL SERVICIO Y TRATANDO DE CREAR UN CAMBIO SOCIETAL. & gt; & gt; SER MÁS ACTIVO EN TÉRMINOS DE RELACIONES DE CARRERA ES ALGO NUEVO PARA MÍ. PORQUE ANTES DE TENER UN HIJO, NO LO SÉ, COMO SIEMPRE TRATO DE IR ALTO CUANDO ELLOS BAJAN. E INCLUSO COMO PERSONA NEGRA, HAY COSAS QUE NO ME DIJE, COMO EN TÉRMINOS DE RACISMO SISTÉMICO Y CÓMO SE HA MANIFIESTO UNA CULTURA SUPREMACISTA. ES, ES REALMENTE REALMENTE PROFUNDO. & gt; & gt; LA GENTE NEGRA NO PUEDE SER RACISTA. ASÍ QUE QUIERO IR ADELANTE Y CAVE CON ESO. Y CREO FUERTEMENTE QUE MUCHAS PERSONAS BLANCAS, LA MAYORÍA DE LAS PERSONAS BLANCAS INCLUSO ARGUNTARÁN PARA DECIR, ¿TIENEN ESTE SESGO IMPLÍCITO? ALGUNOS DE USTEDES DIJERON QUE TIENEN 50 Y 57, PROBABLEMENTE HAY MOMENTOS EN LOS QUE PODRÍA REACCIONAR DE LA MANERA QUE LO HIZO AMY COOPER CUANDO CHRISTIAN COOPER LE PIDIÓ QUE PONGA SU PERRO CON LA CORREA. Y no crees que lo harías. ¿DERECHO? PERO ESO ES UNA DIFERENCIA ENTRE SESGO IMPLÍCITO Y EXPLÍCITO. & gt; & gt; NO SOY - NO SOY DE NINGÚN MODO RACISTA. PERO RECONOZCO EN MÍ MISMO ESOS MOMENTOS EN QUE ESTOY BAJANDO POR UN CALLEJÓN Y DOS TIPOS NEGROS VIENEN HACIA MÍ. Y TENGO ESE MOMENTO DE MIEDO QUE ALGO DENTRO MÍ FUE ENSEÑADO Y ME DA VERGÜENZA SENTIRLO. PERO USTED ESTÁ EN LO CORRECTO. USTED ES 100% CORRECTO. PARTICIPANTE W, YO VOTARÍA POR USTED PARA LA OFICINA HOY. DONDE YO INHERENTEMENTE Y TOTALMENTE EN DESACUERDO ES LA IDEA DE QUE LOS NEGROS NO PUEDEN SER RACISTAS. EN EL SURESTE DE GEORGIA, COMO ALGUIEN QUE HA SIDO EL UNICO BLANCO EN UNA MULTITUD DE HOMBRES BLAC Y OYE, SABE QUÉ, "F TU HONKY, FOLLATE, FAT CRACKER". TODA LA GENTE VA A SER RACISTA. VA A HABER RACISMO. ¿CÓMO CAMBIAMOS ESO? EMPEZAMOS A CAMBIAR EL DIÁLOGO Y EMPEZAMOS A ACEPTAR A TODOS POR QUIÉN SON. & gt; & gt; LA PARTE DEL RACISMO VERSUS SESGO ES QUE EL RACISMO REALMENTE IMPACTA LA VIDA DEL INDIVIDUO. ALGUIEN QUE LE LLAMA UN NOMBRE O ALGUIEN QUE ME LLAMA UN NOMBRE. ESO ES SESGO Y ESO ESTA BIEN. ABSOLUTAMENTE. COMO, TODOS VAN A TENER SESGO. & gt; & gt; ENTENDIDO & gt; & gt; VEMOS PERSONAS DE DIFERENTES MANERAS. ¿PERO ALGUIEN REALMENTE TIENE LOS MEDIOS PARA LLAMAR A LA POLICÍA SOBRE USTED Y HA MATADO POR ALGO MENOR? ESO ES RACISMO. Y LOS NEGROS NO PUEDEN EN ESTE DÍA Y EDAD HACER ESO A LOS BLANCOS. Y ES POR ESO QUE LA GENTE NEGRA NO PUEDE SER RACISTA EN AMÉRICA. ESA ES LA DIFERENCIA. & gt; & gt; SI. [RISA] & gt; & gt; SÍ, DEFINITIVAMENTE DEBEMOS HACER ESTO OTRA VEZ. & gt; & gt; SI. ADIÓS. & gt; & gt; ADIÓS. SOLEDAD: HEMOS AYUDADO A UNIR ESTA EXPERIENCIA. RECLUTAMOS AL PROFESOR MAZHARIN BANAJI DE HARVARD UNIVERSIT. DR. BANAJI, QUE PLACER TENER LA OPORTUNIDAD DE HABLAR CON USTED. COMENZEMOS CON LA CONFIGURACIÓN DE ESTE EXPERIMENTO. ¿HABÍA ALGO QUE SE LE DEJÓ ESPECÍFICAMENTE? & gt; & gt; LO QUE FUE INTERESANTE, Y CREO QUE ESTO SE ADAPTA A LA INVESTIGACIÓN, ES LA PROFUNDA SIMPATÍA QUE TENÍAN LOS OBSERVADORES EN TODAS LAS FORMAS EN QUE USTED QUERÍA QUE TENGA BUENA GENTE. SENTIRON POR LA PERSONA CONTRA LA AGRESIÓN. TAMBIÉN INTENTARON EXPLICAR POR QUÉ LA PERSONA QUE HIZO EL MAL COMPORTAMIENTO PODRÍA HABER HECHO LO QUE HIZO ESA PERSONA Y PARA OBSERVAR ESTE GRUPO TOMAR A ESOS E INTENTAR DARLE SENTIDO. ESTAMOS DANDO EXPLANACIÓN PARA EL COMPORTAMIENTO DE LAS PERSONAS TODO EL TIEMPO. UNO DE LOS LUGARES DONDE PUEDE VER EL SESGO REVELARSE ES EN NUESTRA ELECCIÓN DE EXPLICACIONES. ALGUNAS DE LAS PERSONAS EN EL ESTUDIO DIJERON COSAS COMO, BUENO, NO SÉ LO QUE PASÓ ANTES. NO SABÍA QUÉ PASÓ DESPUÉS. SOLO VAMOS UNA PEQUEÑA PIEZA. Y YO DECIRÍA A ESO, ESO ES LA VIDA. EN EL INTERCAMBIO DE TEXTO, PODRÍA VER UNA DIVISIÓN. HUBO ALGUNAS PERSONAS QUE SENTIRON QUE HABÍA ESTOS MALOS ACTORES INDIVIDUALES Y LUEGO OTROS QUE SENTIRON QUE HABÍA UNA SOCIEDAD QUE REALMENTE REFLEJA EN SUS ACCIONES INDIVIDUALES. & gt; & gt; DESDE LOS AÑOS 60, SE HABÍA MONTADO DE INVESTIGACIONES QUE MUESTRAN QUE SOMOS MUCHO MÁS PARTIDOS, QUE PONER EN LAS MISMAS SITUACIONES, LA MAYORÍA DE NOSOTROS SE COMPORTARÍA EXACTAMENTE DE LA MISMA MANERA. ASÍ QUE NO PODEMOS DESCARTAR Y VOY A SER MUY CLARO AL RESPECTO, NO PODEMOS DESCARTARSE NOSOTROS MISMOS DE SER AMY COOPER SOLEDAD: AMY COOPER SE DISCULPIO PROFUSAMENTE. ¿Qué leíste en sus disculpas? ESO ES OTRA VEZ UNA PIEZA TAN FUNDAMENTAL DE LA NATURALEZA HUMANA. HAY OTROS LADOS DEL MISMO SER HUMANO. NO ES QUE UNO ES EL BUENO Y ESTE ES EL MALO, SINO QUE HAY EN O MENTES, EN LA MISMA MENTE HUMANA, AMBAS DE ESTAS. Y ESO ES LO QUE TAN INTEREST EN SOLEDAD: DR. MAHZARIN BANAJI, QUÉ PLACER CHARLAR CON USTED. MUCHÍSIMAS GRACIAS POR SU TIEMPO. & gt; & gt; GRACIAS SOLEDAD: DR. BANAJI ESTARÁ CONMIGO AL FINAL DEL SHOW PARA RESPONDER A SUS PREGUNTAS. ASÍ QUE SIGAN LLEGANDO. OYO AL DR. BANAJI HABLA SOBRE EL IMPACTO DEL SESGO EN NUESTRAS COMUNIDADES. PARA LAS PERSONAS AFECTADAS DIRECTAMENTE POR ACTOS DE SESGO IMPLÍCITO O EXPLÍCITO, EL IMPACTO PUEDE SER DEVASTADOR. HABLAMOS A TRES PERSONAS QUE HAN EXPERIMENTADO ESTE TIPO DE TRAUMA. LO QUE ESTÁ A PUNTO DE VER ES LO QUE SUCEDIÓ Y LE PRESTAMOS QUE ALGUNOS DE LOS IDIOMAS SON OFENSIVOS. & gt; & gt; CUANDO VIENE COMO EXTRANJERO Y NUNCA HABLA EL IDIOMA, NO SE LE VE COMO PARTE DE SU COMUNIDAD. LA MAYORÍA DE LOS PAÍSES, TODOS HABLAN EL MISMO IDIOMA Y TODOS TIENEN EL MISMO, PERO EN AMÉRICA, TIENES QUE SENTIR QUE PERTENECES. & gt; & gt; HE EXISTIDO EN ESPACIOS DONDE MIS OTROS PRIVILEGIOS ME HAN MANTENIDO SEGURO. SOY UN ACADÉMICO Y UN ALGO DE PRIVILEGIO FINANCIERO QUE HA PERFECCIONADO MI EXPERIENCIA COMO MUJER AFROAMERICANA. HAY MUCHO QUE DESEMBALAR EN CUANTO NOSOTROS COMO PAÍS RECONOCEMOS QUE EL RACISMO AÚN EXISTE Y QUE ES UN PROBLEMA QUE VALE LA PENA SOLUCIONAR. & gt; & gt; SOY UN MARIDO, PADRE DE TRES HERMOSAS NIÑAS. TAN PRONTO QUE NOS LLAMÓ LA PALABRA N, EN MI MENTE, ESTOY PENSANDO PARA MÍ MISMO, LITERALMENTE VIENDO ALGO QUE HE ESTUDIADO ESTUDIANDO TODA LA VIDA. & gt; & gt; LO QUE USTED LLAMA M DIGO OTRA VEZ. & gt; & gt; REALMENTE NO TENGO DEMASIADAS AVENIDAS QUE TOMAR PARA RECIBIR ALGÚN TIPO DE JUSTICIA O PARA LLAMAR A ALGUIEN Y PIENSA QUE REALMENTE ME AYUDARÁN, ASÍ QUE MI ECUALIZADOR EN ESE INSTANCIA ERA MI TELÉFONO & gt; & gt; ESTABA CAMINANDO AL APARTAMENTO DE MI PAREJA DESDE GRAND CENTRAL STATION. TENÍA EN UNA CAMISETA BLACK LIVES MATTER, AÚN NO SÉ SI ESO CONTRIBUYÓ AL INCIDENTE EN ABSOLUTO. & gt; & gt; OBAMA - JUSTO AL LADO DE SU ESPOSA MONO. [EXPLETIVO] SIMIOS. & gt; & gt; CUANDO LA MAYORÍA VEN ESE VIDEO DE DOS MINUTOS LO QUE HACEN ES SE COLOCAN EN MIS ZAPATOS, PERO DESDE SU EXPERIENCIA DE VIDA. & gt; & gt; HOLA, LE PREGUNTO SI ESTA ES SU PROPIEDAD. & Gt; & gt; ¿POR QUÉ ESTÁ PREGUNTANDO? & Gt; & gt; PORQUE ES PROPIEDAD PRIVADA. PORQUE ES PROPIEDAD PRIVADA, SEÑOR. & Gt; & gt; ASÍ QUE ESTÁ DESFACIANDO LA PROPIEDAD PRIVADA O ¿ES ESTE SU EDIFICIO? & Gt; & gt; PUEDE EXPRESAR SUS OPINIONES. & Gt; & gt; NO, USTED. ASÍ QUE SI YO VIVIERA AQUÍ Y ESTA FUE MI PROPIEDAD ESTA ESTARÍA ABSOLUTAMENTE BIEN. Y NO SABE SI VIVO AQUÍ & gt; & gt; REALMENTE, LO SIENTO . REALMENTE SABEMOS, POR ESO LO PEDIMOS. & Gt; & gt; OH, REALMENTE PORQUE USTED VIVE AQUÍ, Cierto. & Gt; & gt; NO PORQUE CONOCEMOS A LA PERSONA QUE LO HACE VIVE AQUÍ. & Gt; & gt; ASÍ QUE, LAS PERSONAS QUE ESTÁN DICIENDO, BIEN, SI USTED HABÍA RESPUESTO A SU PREGUNTA Y DIJO SÍ VIVO AQUÍ QUE ESTARÍA BIEN Y SE HABÍA CAMINADO, ESAS GENTE ESTÁN HABLANDO MAYORMENTE DE BLANCO PRIVILEGIO. & Gt; & gt; ESTO NO ERA SÓLO ALGO QUE LE PASÓ A UN CHICO QUE TENÍA UN COLLAR AZUL O UN TRABAJO DE CUELLO BLANCO, ESTO LE PASÓ A ALGUIEN CUYA MISIÓN REAL DE LA VIDA HASTA EL VIENTO YA SE ENFOCÓ EN USAR BLANCO K HISTORIA PARA AYUDAR A LOS NIÑOS, ESPECIALMENTE A LOS NIÑOS QUE SE VEAN COMO ÉL. & gt; & gt; LA PALABRA QUE UTILIZÓ QUE ME DESTACÓ MÁS QUE NADA FUE LA PALABRA APE. NUNCA HABÍA TENIDO ESO ANTES. Ciertamente ME HAN LLAMADO LA PALABRA N ANTES EN MI PASADO, PERO NUNCA HE SIDO COMPARADO CON UN ANIMAL COMO ESE. & gt; & gt; USTED NO TIENE QUE RESPONDER A LAS PERSONAS CUANDO PRESUMEN QUE TIENEN AUTORIDAD O PODER SOBRE USTED NO TIENEN QUE RENUNCIARLO, NO TIENEN QUE DARLO. SOMOS UN PAÍS MEJOR POR NUESTRAS DIFERENCIAS Y POR NUESTRA VARIEDAD, POR TODAS LAS HERMOSAS COSAS DIFERENTES QUE TRAEMOS A LA MESA QUE NO SOMOS TODOS IGUALES. & gt; & gt; EL MENSAJE QUE TENDRÍA PARA AMÉRICA AHORA MISMO ES PARA COMPRENDER VERDADERAMENTE QUE CUANDO VES EL CRIMEN DE ODIO, ESTÁS VER ALGO QUE ES TRIVIAL EN RELACIÓN CON EL RACISMO QUE TRATAMOS DE FORMA REGULAR. NO ES TRIVIAL EN SÍ MISMO, PERO ES EL ICEBERG Y NO PUEDES VER TODO EL GLACIAR A MENOS QUE MIRES BAJO EL AGUA. & gt; & gt; TENEMOS QUE LLEGAR AL PUNTO DONDE ACUSAR A ALGUIEN DE COMPORTAMIENTO PENAL SÓLO PORQUE NO SON DE SU COLOR DE PIEL ES HORRIFICO, ES INACEPTABLE, ES UN-AMÉRICA SOLEDAD: CUALQUIERA DE NOSOTROS ES RECLAMADO POR SER TENIDO, PICA. SI ES BLANCO, ES POSIBLE QUE SE SIENTA DEFENSIVO. NUESTRO PRÓXIMO INVITADO ESTÁ DICIENDO QUE ES UN SENTIMIENTO QUE NECESITAS TENER EN CUENTA. CONOCE AL DR. ROBIN DIANGELO. AUTOR DEL LOOK "BLANCO FRAGILIDAD". ROBIN D'ANGELO, ES UN GUSTO DE TENERTE. USTED HABLA MUCHO DE SER BLANCO Y POBRE Y ESO LE DA UNA VISIÓN INTERESANTE SOBRE UNA CONVERSACIÓN QUE ES MUCHO SOBRE PRIVILEGIO. & gt; & gt; DESDE MUY PRINCIPAL, ESTABA AGUDAMENTE CONSCIENTE DE LA VERGÜENZA DE LA POBREZA DE QUE LA VIDA NO FUE NADADA JUSTA CONTRA LA CORRIENTE, USTED ES MUY CONSCIENTE QUE HAY UNA CORRIENTE. PERO CUANDO NADES CON ÉL, NO LO NOTAS. MIENTRAS HABÍA PASADO AÑOS TINTANDO SOBRE LAS INJUSTICAS Y PENSANDO EN LAS INJUSTICAS Y EL DOLOR DE LA POBREZA, NUNCA HABÍA CONSIDERADO CÓMO ME BENEFICIÉ DE LA OPRESIÓN DE OTRA PERSONA. DE HECHO, CÓMO SER BLANCO ME AYUDÓ A NAVEGAR POR LA POBREZA Y ME AYUDÓ A SALIR DE LA POBREZA. SOLEDAD: A MENUDO LA GENTE PIENSA EN EL RACISMO O EN EL SESGO COMO ESTE INDIVIDUO HACIENDO SÓLO UNA MEDIA, UNA COSA NO AMABLE CON OTRAS PERSONAS COMO ESA PERSONA DE ALLÍ, SON RACISTA. & gt; & gt; SE TRATA DE PODER. SE TRATA DEL SESGO COLECTIVO DE UN GRUPO. TODOS TENEMOS SESGO. PERO CUANDO EL SESGO COLECTIVO DE NUESTRO GRUPO ESTÁ RESPALDADO POR LA AUTORIDAD LEGAL Y EL CONTROL INSTITUCIONAL, ESO LO TRANSFORME EN RACIS SISTÉMICOS SOLEDAD: TENGO CURIOSIDAD DE SI SE TRATA DE PODER, ¿SIGNIFICA QUE LOS NEGROS NO PUEDEN SER RACISOS? & gt; & gt; YO DIRÍA QUE NO. LA GENTE NEGRA NO PUEDE SER RACISTA. PUEDEN SER TENTADOS. ABSOLUTAMENTE TODOS TIENEN SESGO. PARA QUE USTED PUEDA ESTAR TAN TENSADO HACIA MI COMO YO PUEDO ESTAR HACIA USTED PERO CUANDO RESPALDAS EL SESGO DE MI GRUPO CON ESE TIPO DE PODER, HA TRANSFORMADO EL IMPACTO DE ESE BIA, POR LO QUE TENEMOS QUE RESERVAR EL IDIOMA PARA CAPTURARLO O DE OTRA MANERA TRIVIALIZAMOS LA PROFUNDIDAD QUE DIFERENCIA EN IMPACTO. SOLEDAD: ENTONCES, ¿CUÁLES SON LAS OPORTUNIDADES DE CAMBIO ERES OPTIMISTA? ¿Y QUÉ HACEN LAS PERSONAS SI ESTÁN TRATANDO DE DESCUBRIR CÓMO NAVEGAR EN SU PROPIO SESGO Y RACISMO SISTÉMICO? SI ES UN SISTEMA, PARECE QUE UN INDIVIDUO PODRÍA NO SER CAPAZ DE ACTUAR CON MUY FUERTE EN ELLO. & gt; & gt; VOY A HABLAR CON LA GENTE BLANCA AHORA MISMO CONSIDERA ELIMINAR EL RECLAMO "NO SOY RACISTA" DE TU VOCABULARIO. FUNCIONALMENTE NO TIENE SENTIDO. NO CONVIENE A NADIE QUE ENTIENDE EL RACISMO SISTÉMICO. SÓLO LE DICE QUE ESTA PERSONA NO TIENE IDEA Y PROBABLEMENTE NO ESTARÁ ABIERTA, TERMINA, AUNQUE CREO QUE LE ESTOY DICIENDO, QUE NO ESTOY, REALMENTE ESTOY PONIENDO UN MURO QUE DICE QUE USTED ES PROBABLEMENTE NO PODER DARME RETROALIMENTACIÓN O DESAFÍARME O AYUDARME A VER UNA SUPUESTA INESPERADA QUE YO FUE HACIENDO Y ASÍ QUE ESTAMOS HABLANDO SOBRE EL RACISMO SISTÉMICO ES UN GRAN AVANCE EN NUESTRA CAPACIDAD DE AVANZAR. QUE ME DA ESPERANZA. PERO CREO QUE DEBERÍA SER MUY CLARO EN ESTE MOMENTO POLÍTICO. NUNCA, NUNCA PODEMOS SER COMPLACENTES O PENSAR QUE SOMOS POST-RACIALES O PENSAR QUE TODO ESTÁ HECHO Y TODO SE SOLEDAD: ROBIN D'ANGELO, TAN BUEN HABLAR CONTIGO, ROBIN. GRACIAS. & gt; & gt; DE NADA. SOLEDAD: HAZTE UNA PREGUNTA. ¿CREES QUE VIVIMOS EN UN MUNDO POSTRACIAL? SI ES ASÍ, SIGNIFICARÍA QUE NO HAY MÁS ESTEREOTIPOS, QUE NO HACEMOS GENERALIZACIONES SOBRE UN GRUPO EN PARTICULAR Y TENEMOS CIERTAS EXPECTATIVAS SOBRE CADA PERSONA DE ESE GRUPO. CUESTIÓN DE HECHO EL CORRESPONDIENTE JOIE CHEN SE PROPONÓ EXPLORAR LA CREACIÓN DE ESTEREOTIPOS CON UNA MIRADA A PELÍCULAS E IMÁGENES DEL PASADO. Y CÓMO INFLUYEN EN NOSOTROS TODA & gt; & gt; Solía ​​escuchar las burlas del patio de recreo, el ching chong chinaman, las rodillas sucias de los chinos japoneses y me preguntaba dónde aprendían los niños estas cosas. LOS ESTEREOTIPOS. TROPAS RACISTAS. MUESTRA LAS IMÁGENES QUE DAN FORMA A NUESTROS SESIONES ESTÁN EN TODAS PARTES. & gt; & gt; LA IMPRESIÓN DE LA IMAGEN COMIENZA TEMPRANO. ESTAS IMÁGENES ESTÁN EN HISTORIAS Y LIBROS PARA NIÑOS Y ESTÁN EN LA ANIMACIÓN Y ESTÁN EN NUESTRAS PELÍCULAS Y EN NUESTROS ANUNCIOS TAMBIÉN. REPORTERO: LA PROFESORA MIA MASK ESTUDIA CÓMO LOS AFROAMERICANOS SON REPRESENTADOS EN LAS PELÍCULAS, LA CULTURA T Y POP, Y SUS PALABRAS SE ADHIEREN MIENTRAS MIRO "DUMBO" AHORA, DÉCADAS DESPUÉS DE QUE VI POR PRIMERA VEZ "JIM CROW" Y SU PANDILLA: "LO HIZO. ¿ Viste alguna vez una mosca de elefante ? & Gt; & gt; HE VISTO UNA MOSCA DE CABALLO. REPORTERO: O EL "IN-JUNS" EN "PETER PAN. O O SHAN DONG, EL PIANO CON PALILLOS DE DENTADO EN "THE ARISTOCATS". Es vergonzoso pensar que esto siempre fue entretenido. FELIZ. SUBORDINADO. EL TÍO REMUS CANTA UNA "CANCIÓN DEL SUR" CARGADA DE ESTEREOTIPOS, TAN OFENSIVA, QUE DISNEY NI NUNCA LA TRANSMITIRÁ. O LAS CARICATURAS DE PUEBLOS ESCLAVADOS EN LA TARA DE "Ido con el viento". & gt; & gt; SEÑOR. RHETT, LE DIJE YA Y TOLE YA, SIMPLEMENTE NO ES ADECUADO PARA UNA NIÑA QUE MONTE UN DONDE - REPORTERO: DONDE HATTIE MC HACE QUE EL PERSONAJE DE DANIEL SE CONVIERTA EN EL NOMBRE DE UNA TROPA RACISTA, "MAMMY". Resulta que muchos de esos falsos no eran muy divertidos, como el vecino de holly, el señor. YUNIYOSHI EN DESAYUNO A TIFFANY'S. O LA PRIMERA SITCOM DE TELEVISIÓN EN LA PRINCIPAL A UNA MUJER AFROAMERICANA "BEULAH". , & gt; & gt; QUIEN PASA LA MAYOR PARTE DE SU TIEMPO EN LA COCINA PERO NUNCA PARECE SABER LO QUE ESTÁ COCINANDO. REPORTERO ¿POR QUÉ EL PÚBLICO ABRAZÓ ESTAS DEPICCIONES DEDICANTES? PREGUNTÉ AL BECARIO DE MEDIOS Y ESTUDIOS CULTURALES ALFRED MARTIN. & gt; & gt; LOS ESTEREOTIPOS NO SON SÓLO PARA DECIR, ¿NO ES ESTO DIVERTIDO? EN GENERAL, SIEMPRE SE TRATAN DE MANTENER EL STATUS QUO EN SU LUGAR. REPORTERO POR LO QUE SE HA CONVERTIDO EN PARTE DE NUESTRA CONCIENCIA Y DE NUESTRA SUBCONSCIENCIA. ACEPTAMOS LAS IDEAS DE NEGROS COMO PEREZOS, ASIÁTICOS COMO FALTOS DE CONFIANZA, LATINOS COMO SOMBROSOS, COMO TIRANTES. ESTO HA SEMANADO EN NUESTRA CONCIENCIA E INFORMA CÓMO VEMOS A LAS PERSONAS EN EL MUNDO DIARIO Y EN NUESTRA EXISTENCIA DIARIA EN NUESTRAS IMÁGENES SUBCONSCIENTES COLECTIVAS QUE PUEDE HABER SUPERADO EN PUBLICIDAD, SÓLO AHORA SON ALGUNAS DE LAS MÁS DESHUMERIZADORAS DE FINANCIADORES CARACTERIZADOS ESTANTES FUERA DE LA TIENDA. HAY GENTE QUE DECIRÍA, MIRA, ES SÓLO JARABE DE PANCAKE. & gt; & gt; PODRÍA SER SÓLO JARABE DE PANCAKE. SI NO CREÍAMOS EN LA INFERIORIDAD DE CIERTOS GRUPOS, Y EN LA SUPERIORIDAD DE OTRO REPORTERO: CASO EN PUNTO, "NACIMIENTO DE UN NATON" REQUERÍA VISUALIZACIÓN EN CASI CUALQUIER CLASE DE PELÍCULA UNIVERSITARIA NO SÓLO GLORIFICA LA KLAN, RETRA AFRICAN LOS HOMBRES AMERICANOS COMO LIBROS VOLÁTILES - DOLOR, EL SALVAJE ES DE TEMAR. & gt; & gt; PODEMOS VER LA FORMA EN QUE SE DIBUJA EN PARTICULARES TIPOS DE ESTEREOTIPOS DE NEGRA QUE DICEN, ESCUCHEN, COMO SI ABOLIMOS LA ESCLAVITUD, COMO ESTOS NEGROS VAN A HACER TODO TIPO DE COSAS TERRIBLES. ASÍ QUE LOS HOMBRES NEGROS VAN A VIOLAR Y PILAR A LAS MUJERES BLANCAS YO LOS DEJAMOS ESTAR EN CARGOS DE AUTORIDAD LEGISLATIVA, VAN A FALTAR EL TIPO DE TRADICIÓN QUE TENEMOS. REPORTERO: DEPICCIONES QUE TAMBIÉN PUEDEN IMPACTAR EL FUTURO. & gt; & gt; SE VE MÁS ALLÁ DE LA CULTURA POPULAR. Entonces, los oficiales de policía que llegaron a la mayoría de edad en la década de 1990 y principios de 2000, aprendieron de esas películas que los hombres negros deben ser contenidos. QUE LOS HOMBRES NEGROS SON UNA AMENAZA, QUE AMENAZAN BARRIOS BLANCOS, MUJERES BLANCAS, COMUNIDAD BLANCA. REPORTERO: LOS ESTUDIANTES DICEN QUE EL ARREGLO NO ES SÓLO PARA SACAR MATERIAL OFENSIVO DE LA PANTALLA, SINO PARA DAR AL PÚBLICO CONTEXTO PARA IMÁGENES ANTIGUAS Y DAR VOCES DIVERSAS, COMO LOS PRODUCTORES QUE DARON VIDA A "PANTERA NEGRA". & gt; & gt; ¿QUIÉN ERES TÚ? REPORTERO: NUEVAS OPORTUNIDADES PARA DAR FORMA A NUESTRA VISIÓN. SOY JOIE CHEN PARA EL TOUR DE ESCUCHA. SOLEDAD: NUESTRO MUNDO ESTÁ IMPACTADO POR LAS HISTORIAS QUE CONTAMOS EN CASA, EN EL AULA Y EN LA PANTALLA. Y LAS HISTORIAS QUE COMPARTIMOS CADA DÍA CAMBIAN NUESTRA CULTURA. & gt; & gt; HOLA, MI NOMBRE ES JOSÉ LUIS RIOS SOY EL DIRECTOR DE FOTOGRAFÍA DEL "SAN ANTONIO EXPRESS-NEWS". SOY UN ACLARADO ABOGADO DE LA FOTOGRAFÍA DOCUMENTAL JUSTA Y RESPONSABLE. SOY UNA EXTENSIÓN TANTO DE MI PADRE COMO DE MI MADRE MI PADRE FUE UN INMIGRANTE MEXICANO QUE TENÍA UNA INCREÍBLE ÉTICA DE TRABAJO. MI MADRE, DE ELLA, TENGO SU SENTIDO DE EMPATÍA POR EL SUBPRIVILEGIO SOLEDAD: PARA CONOCER CÓMO SE FORMAN LAS HISTORIAS Y LAS RESPONSABILIDADES QUE INVOLUCRAN EN CONCEBIR Y RETRAR IMÁGENES EN CINE Y TELEVISIÓN, PASAMOS A JOHN RIDLEY. UN ESCRITOR-DIRECTOR CUYO PROYECTOS DE CINE Y TV TRATAN DE CONFLICTO RACIAL. GANÓ UN OSCAR POR SU ADAPTACIÓN A LA PANTALLA DE "12 AÑOS DE ESCLAVO". QUERÍAMOS ESCUCHAR DE ÉL SOBRE LA RESPONSABILIDAD QUE SIENTE COMO CREADOR DE LAS NARRATIVAS E IMÁGENES PARA ESTE MOMENTO. AQUÍ ESTÁ CORRESPONSAL JESSIC GOMEZ. REPORTERO: & gt; & gt; ESTE ES NUESTRO ESPACIO DE RENDIMIENTO. JESSICA: CONOCEMOS AL REALIZADOR JOHN RIDLEY EN SU ORGANIZACIÓN DE ARTES EN SU HOGAR DE MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN. & gt; & gt; SI MIRA AL ESTE, VE REVITALIZACIÓN, VE EDIFICIOS, VE GENTE QUE PROBABLEMENTE SE ENCUENTRA EN BUENA FORMA FINANCIERA, Y SI MIRA A TRAVÉS DE LA AUTOPISTA, HAY GENTE QUE ESTÁ LUCHANDO TODOS LOS DÍAS. JESSICA: EL ESTUDIO, CREANDO UNA CONEXIÓN ENTRE DIFERENTES MUNDOS. COMO MUCHO DEL TRABAJO DE RIDLEY. & gt; & gt; ESTAMOS AQUÍ PARA APOYAR A ARTISTAS, TODO TIPO DE ARTISTAS DE DIFERENTES FONDOS PERO CIERTAMENTE ARTISTAS DE FONDOS TRADICIONALMENTE DESENFRANQUIZADOS. JESSICA: RIDLEY, QUE GANÓ UN OSCAR AL MEJOR GUIÓN POR "12 AÑOS DE ESCLAVO" Y CREÓ "CRIMEN AMERICANO" DE ABC, ES CONOCIDO POR ENFRENTAR LOS PROBLEMAS DE LA CARRERA Y LA REPRESENTACIÓN DE FRENTE. & gt; & gt; REALMENTE ME GUSTA USAR LA REPRESENTACIÓN DE LA PALABRA O SER REFLEXIVO DEL MUNDO EN QUE VIVIMOS. JESSICA: ¿DÓNDE ESTAMOS EN TÉRMINOS DE RAZA Y REPRESENTACIÓN EN HOLLYWOOD EN TU MENTE? JOHN: BUENO, CREO QUE ESTAMOS EN UNA MEJOR POSICIÓN DE LA QUE LLEGAMOS A PRINCIPIOS DE LOS 90, PERO AÚN HAY UN LARGO CAMINO POR HACER. EN HOLLYWOOD, LA GENTE REALMENTE SE REPRESENTA COMO MUY LIBERAL Y PROGRESIVA Y NOS ENCANTA ESTAR AL FRENTE DE LA GENTE Y PROSPERAMENTE LOS PROBLEMAS PROGRESIVOS. PERO NO HACEMOS UN BUEN TRABAJO EN NUESTRO PROPIO PATIO TRASERO, EN NUESTRAS PROPIAS OFICINAS, EN NUESTRO PROPIO SET CUANDO USTED ASISTE A LAS REUNIONES, QUIÉNES SON LAS PERSONAS DEL ESTUDIO LAS REDES AL NIVEL MÁS ALTO QUE TIENEN AUTORIDAD FINAL SOBRE QUÉ TIPO DE HISTORIAS ESTÁN ELEGIENDO, ¿EN QUÉ TIPO DE PERSONAS SE CONTRATAN? JESSICA: RIDLEY ELEGIR HISTORIAS QUE SE DIVIEREN EN GÉNEROS. SU SERIE DE CÓMICOS DE BATMAN, EN LA QUE BATMAN ES NEGRO, SE LANZARÁ PRONTO. TAL COMO ES SU NOVELA GRÁFICA, "LA OTRA HISTORIA DEL UNIVERSO DC RIDLEY, AUNQUE, LOS FANS QUE ESPERAN ESTÁN MÁS INTERESADOS EN LOS PERSONAJES QUE EN SU COLOR. & Gt; & gt; REALMENTE ES UNA OPORTUNIDAD DE HABLAR SOBRE LAS HISTORIAS QUE HAN SIDO, EN CÓMIC LIBROS, QUE HAN SIDO IMPACTANTES PARA MÍ Y PARA OTROS LECTORES, DURANTE AÑOS Y DÉCADAS, PERO MÍRALO DESDE UNA LENTE LIGERAMENTE DIFERENTE, LA LENTE DE LOS HÉROES DE COLOR, DE PERSONAJES FEMENINOS, DE PERSONAJES DE LA COMUNIDAD LBGT. Y COMO CUALQUIER OTRA HISTORIA, ¿CÓMO VEMOS LOS EVENTOS QUE SOPORTAMOS JUNTOS, PERO CÓMO LOS VEMOS UN POCO DIFERENTE? JESSIC AS HISTORIA SE DESARROLLA HOY, DICE RIDLEY ESCUCHAR DESDE TODAS LAS PERSPECTIVAS, NO IMPORTA CUÁN DURO, AHORA ES MÁS IMPORTANTE QUE NUNCA. & Gt; & gt; & gt; SI ESTÁ HACIENDO HISTORIAS SOBRE RELACIONES DE CARRERA, SI ESTÁ HACIENDO HISTORIAS SOBRE ASUNTOS DE ECONOMÍA SOCIO, NO SON HISTORIAS FELICES, EN GENERAL SON HISTORIAS DIFÍCILES. PERO AL MISMO TIEMPO, EL CINE Y LA TELEVISIÓN ES UN GRAN LUGAR PARA ENFRENTAR LOS PROBLEMAS O DELVE MÁS PROFUNDAMENTE. SI NO HACEMOS UN ESFUERZO PARA PONER ESTAS HISTORIAS FRENTE A LA GENTE, LUEGO NO SÉ QUIÉN ES. & gt; & gt; TIENES QUE MIRAR DONDE ESTÁS Y PREGUNTARTE, ¿HAY MÁS QUE PUEDES HACER? JESSICA: JESSICA: RIDLEY, HACIENDO MÁS EN SU HOGAR PARA LA PRÓXIMA GENERACIÓN DE CUENTADORES. ¿Qué les dices a los jóvenes realizadores sobre la representación y el sesgo? & gt; & gt; NO HAY MUCHO QUE PUEDE HACER SOBRE EL SESGO QUE ENFRENTARÁ, PERO LO ÚNICO QUE PUEDE HACER ES SER REALMENTE CONSCIENTE DE LO QUE ESTÁ SUCEDIENDO EN SU DESPIERTO Y ESTÁ HACIENDO TODO LO QUE PUEDE PARA HACER SURF QUE GENTE EN LA SALA DE ESCRITOR Y LA GENTE EN EL SET, QUE NO SE VEN EXACTAMENTE COMO YO Y YO SÉ POR EXPERIENCIA QUE LAS HISTORIAS QUE HEMOS CONTADO SON MEJORES POR ESO. JESSICA: SOY JESSICA GOMEZ PARA EL TOUR DE ESCUCHA. SOLEDAD: LAS NARRATIVAS EN PELÍCULAS Y PROGRAMAS DE TV INFLUYEN EN LA MANERA EN QUE VEMOS EL MUNDO. LAS NARRATIVAS ENTREGADAS EN NUESTRAS NOTICIAS TIENEN AÚN MAYOR IMPACTO. ELLOS ENMARCAN NUESTRAS DISCUSIONES CÍVICAS. PEDIMOS A DOROTHY TUCKER, PERIODISTA VETERANA DE WBBM EN CHICAGO Y PRESIDENTE DE LA ASOCIACIÓN NACIONAL DE PERIODISTAS NEGROS, QUE REFLEXIONE SOBRE POR QUÉ LAS NARRATIVAS REFLEJADAS EN LAS PALABRAS Y FOTOS QUE VEMOS IMPORTAN. & gt; & gt; CUANDO BLACK JOGGER AHMAUD ARBERY FUE MUERTO A TIROS EN LOS SUBURBAN ATLANTA POR DOS HOMBRES BLANCOS, RECIBÍ UNA LLAMADA DE UNO DE NUESTROS MIEMBROS. JOVEN PERIODISTA. Sonaba cansado. "TENEMOS QUE HACER ALGO", DIJO. "LOS HERMANOS ESTÁN DOLIDOS". NO FUE LA ÚLTIMA LLAMADA QUE RECIBIRÍA. LA MUERTE DE OTRA PERSONA NEGRA TUVO UN PROFUNDO IMPACTO EN LOS PERIODISTAS NEGROS. DEMASIADOS SE VIERON EN CADA INOCENTE CARA NEGRA DE UN CORREDOR, CONDUCTOR O ALGUIEN SENTADO EN SU COCHE, DORMIR EN SU CAMA O MARCHANDO POR LA JUSTICIA. ES UN MIEDO QUE SE HACE PROFUNDO PORQUE NO SE BASA EN UNA ACCIÓN O REACCIÓN. SOMOS OBJETIVO POR EL COLOR DE NUESTRA PIEL. TODAVÍA, ES NUESTRO TRABAJO CUBRIR LAS HISTORIAS, SER JUSTO Y EQUILIBRADO A PESAR DE NUESTRO DOLOR, O MIEDOS Y ENOJAMIENTO. PORQUE HABLAR A VECES NOS PONE EN PROBLEMAS. LA REPORTERA DE PITTSBURGH ALEXIS JOHNSON EXPRESÓ SU FRUSTRACIÓN A TRAVÉS DE UN TWEET Y SE LEVANTÓ. AQUÍ ESTÁ LO QUE HIZO. COMPARÓ FOTOS DESPUÉS DE UNA PROTESTA QUE SE DESCRIBIÓ COMO "SAQUEO EGOÍSTICO" CON FOTOS SIMILARES DEL DAÑO DESPUÉS DE QUE UN CONCER DEL OCCIDENTE DE UN PAÍS EL TWEET DE JOHNSON LLAMADO EN CUESTIÓN EL INJUSTO RETRATO DE CÓMO EL MEDIANTE NEGRO CUBRIÓ A UN EVENTO CUBRIÓ UN EVENTO PREDOMINADAMENTE BLANCO. JOHNSON fue retirado de la cobertura de futuras protestas. BIAS ESTÁ VIVO Y BIEN EN LA INDUSTRIA DE NOTICIAS. CONSIDERE LA HISTORIA EN MLIVE.COM EN FLINT, MICHIGAN. TRES HOMBRES NEGROS CORRERÍAN PARA LA OFICINA POLÍTICA. TODOS TENÍAN CEPILLOS PREVIOS CON LA LEY, Y TODOS TENÍAN MUGSHOT. PARA DOS DE LOS HOMBRES, EL PAPEL ELIGIÓ REALIZAR LAS FOTOS EN LUGAR DE SUS FOTOS DE CAMPAÑA. LA COMUNIDAD SE ESOJÓ. LOS GERENTES DE NOTICIAS SE DISCULPON. EL USO DE MUGSHOTS POR LOS MEDIOS DE COMUNICACIÓN HA JUGADO UN PAPEL PRINCIPAL AL ​​CONTRIBUIR A LOS ESTEREOTIPOS NEGATIVOS INJUSTOS DE AMÉRICA SOBRE LOS NEGROS. A menudo, estas imágenes disparejas o lenguaje ofensivo que vemos en los medios de comunicación son el resultado de administradores que aportan su sesgo inconsciente a los trabajos. UN MIEMBRO DE EAST COAST RECONTO RECIENTEMENTE UN INCIDENTE QUE SUCEDIÓ HACE UNOS AÑOS, PERO SENTIR QUE UN POCO HABÍA CAMBIADO. ESCRIBIÓ: "EN MUCHAS OCASIONES HE TENIDO QUE REFORMAR LAS ASIGNACIONES CUANDO ME HABÍAN DADO LA HISTORIA NEGRA. EN UN EJEMPLO, ME ASIGNARON INFORMAR SOBRE EL VEREDICTO DE LA FACTURA COSBY CUANDO SURGIÓ. LA TESIS DE LA HISTORIA YA FUE ESCRITA EN MI CABEZA DEL EDITOR. TENÍA QUE EXPLICARLE QUE NO ESCRIBIRÍA SU TEORÍA, UNA TEORÍA QUE DICE QUE LOS NEGROS ACEPTAN COSBY A PESAR DEL VERDICTO ". LE EXPLICÓ A SU EDITOR, LOS NEGROS NO SON MONOLÍTICOS. NABJ Y SUS CAPÍTULOS LOCALES HAN PUBLICADO DEMASIADAS DECLARACIONES QUE EXPRESAN NUESTRO ENOJO, FRUSTRACIÓN O DECEPCIÓN SOBRE LA COBERTURA DE SESGO. Y CUANDO LLAMAMOS A LOS GERENTES DE NOTICIAS PARA HABLAR SOBRE EL INCIDENTE, ENCONTRAMOS UN HILO COMÚN. POCOS, SI HAY GERENTES NEGROS EN LA SALA DE PRENSA. NECESITAMOS MÁS POSICIONES DE TOMA DE DECISIONES DE GERENTES NEGROS. ADMINISTRADORES NEGROS QUE PUEDAN COMPROMETER A SUS COLEGAS BLANCOS EN CONVERSACIONES HONESTAS SOBRE RAZA Y CULTURA. GERENTES NEGROS QUE PUEDEN CAMBIAR LA DIRECCIÓN DE LA COBERTURA DE NOTICIAS, NO SÓLO POR SUS EXPERIENCIAS DE VIDA, SINO POR SU GRAN ÉTICA PERIODISTA. JUNTOS, ESTA ES NUESTRA OPORTUNIDAD DE CAMBIAR EL DIÁLOGO Y A SU VEZ REPORTAR HONESTAMENTE LAS NOTICIAS. SOLEDAD: TODO PERIODISTA ENFRENTA EL MISMO RETO. ¿CÓMO TRAEMOS LO QUE CONOCEMOS Y HEMOS EXPERIMENTADO A LA HISTORIA QUE CONTAMOS? Y PERMANECER JUSTO EN NUESTRA COBERTURA DE EVENTOS. & gt; & gt; SOY MARIA HINOJOSA. SOY EL ANCLA Y PRODUCTOR EJECUTIVO DE "LATINO USA". SOY EL CO-ANCLA DEL PODCAST POLÍTICO "EN GRUESO" Y SOY EL FUNDADOR DE FUTURO MEDIA. ASÍ ESTA HISTORIA QUE TE VOY A CONTAR SOBRE EL SESGO EN LOS MEDIOS. YO FUE EL PRIMER CORRESPONSAL LATINA EN NPR Y REALMENTE LUCHÉ POR HACER ESTA HISTORIA PORQUE HABÍA UNA HEROÍNA REALMENTE MALA QUE HABÍA SU CAMINO POR LAS CALLES DEL SUR DE BRONX. Y VI UNA PERSONALIDAD NPR MUY FAMOSA. Y ESTA PERSONA ME DIJO: "OH DIOS MIO, HE ESCUCHADO TU INFORME ACERCA DEL SUR DE BRONX. OH DIOS MIO, NO ESTAS ATERRIFICADO EL PRIMER DIA QUE TUVO QUE PONER UN PIE ALLI?" Y YO DIJE, "BIEN, EN REALIDAD, NO TENGO MIEDO DE ESAS COMUNIDADES, YO CONOZCO ESAS COMUNIDADES, ME PASO EN ESAS COMUNIDADES. HE VIVIDO EN ESAS COMUNIDADES. NO ME ASUSTAN. Y ASÍ NO " ASUME Y PRUEBA LO MEJOR COMO PERIODISTA PARA ESTAR ABIERTO A COMPRENDER QUE EXISTEN MÚLTIPLES FORMAS DE VER LA HISTORIA SOLEDAD: EL TRABAJO DE PERIODISTAS SE INTENSIFICA EN TIEMPOS DE DESCANSO Y PROTESTA. LAS DECISIONES QUE TOMAMOS SOBRE CÓMO DESCRIBIR CRITICAL A GRUPOS conocer la verdad. EL uso de la lengua podemos definir los temas o juegan en prejuicio. unirse a nosotros para discutir los desafíos son un periodista detenido cuando cubría protesta EN Ferguson y un activista que ayudó a crear el NEGRO VIDAS MATERIA MOVIMIENTO. WES Lowery, ES MUY BUENO VERLOS . LLÉVANOS DE REGRESO A FERGUSON EN 2014. ESTUVO ALLÍ PARA CUBRIR LAS PROTESTAS EN TORNO AL ASESINATO DE MICHAEL BROWN. WES: LLEGÉ A FERGUSON EL 11 DE AGOSTO DE 2014, ASÍ QUE SON DOS DÍAS DESPUÉS DE LA MUERTE DE MICHAEL BROWN. LAS PROTESTAS ESTÁN EMPEZANDO A REALMENTE RECOGE EN INTENSIDAD Y ENERGÍA. Y LA RESPUESTA DE LA POLICÍA REALMENTE ESTABA RECUPERANDO EN INTENSIDAD YO MISMO Y OTRO REPORTERO TERMINAMOS NOSOTROS MISMOS SER ARRESTADOS. LLEGARON AL DONDE ESTÁBAMOS TRABAJANDO, NOS DIJERON QUE TENÍAMOS QUE SALIR Y LUEGO ME FRUSTRADOS Y DIJERON QUE ESTÁBAMOS EMBALANDO SUFICIENTEMENTE RÁPIDAMENTE , Bueno, atorníllelo, los vamos a arrestar. USTED SABE, HABÍA HABIDO DOCENAS, SI NO CIENTOS DE RESIDENTES QUE HABÍAN SIDO ARRESTADOS BAJO IGUALES ESCENARIOS DE SOSPECHOSAS. Y SIN EMBARGO, ESTE MOMENTO DONDE LOS MIEMBROS DE LOS MEDIOS DE COMUNICACIÓN FUE ARRESTADOS, FUE ALGO QUE CREO DE MUCHO PAÍS DIJO, BIEN, SI VAN A TRATAR A ESTOS REPORTADORES DE ESTA MANERA, ¿CÓMO PODRÍAN ESTAR TRATANDO A ESTOS RESIDENTES CADA DÍA? ¿CÓMO ESTÁN TRATANDO A LAS PERSONAS CUANDO LAS CÁMARAS NO ESTÁN ALLÍ? Y CREO QUE ES PARTICULARMENTE DIFÍCIL PARA TODAS LAS PERSONAS VER QUE DURANTE TANTO TIEMPO, ESTAS NARRATIVAS DE LA POLICÍA SE HAN TOMADO, COMO USTED SABE, CASI PALABRA DE DIOS, ¿Cierto? BUENO, DIJERON, NO DEBIÓ HABER RESISTIDO SI NO QUERÍA HACER X, Y. Y ENTONCES VIMOS ESTOS VIDEOS Y VEMOS DE REPENTE QUE QUIZÁS ESO NO ES LO QUE PASÓ. SOLEDAD: ALICIA GARZA, TAN BUEN TENERTE. HAN PASADO SIETE AÑOS DESDE LA FUNDACIÓN DE LAS VIDAS NEGRAS IMPORTA CÓMO HAN SENTIDO LOS MEDIOS EN GENERAL QUE CUBREN LAS PROTESTAS DE LAS VIDAS NEGRAS IMPORTA, QUE SUCEDEN EN TODO EL PAÍS, Y CREO QUE A VECES LOS FUNDADORES DE VIDAS NEGRAS MATERAN ESTÁN ALLÍ Y A VECES USTED NO ESTÁN. ALICIA: CREO QUE DONDE HEMOS TENIDO LA MAYORÍA DE DESAFÍOS ES REALMENTE CONSEGUIR LOS MEDIOS DE COMUNICACIÓN EN LO QUE HEMOS ESTABLECIDO COMO LOS VALORES NO SOLO DE ESTA ORGANIZACIÓN, SINO DE ESTE MOVIMIENTO EN GENERAL. SE CONVIERTE EN UN DESAFÍO CUANDO TODO LO RELACIONADO CON LAS PERSONAS NEGRAS COMIENZA A SER NOMBRADO VIDAS NEGRAS IMPORTA. TODO TIPO DE COSAS SE ADHIEREN A NUESTRO MOVIMIENTO QUE NO ESTÁN NECESARIAMENTE RELACIONADOS. Y ESO NO ES NI BUENO NI MALO. ES SÓLO UNA COSA QUE ES, ¿Cierto? PUEDO DECIR QUE CUANDO LAS VIDAS NEGRAS IMPORTAN EL PRIMER TIPO DE LLEGAR A ESCENA, NO ESTAMOS CUBIERTOS POR LOS MEDIOS DE LA MISMA FORMA. YO DECIRÍA QUE DURANTE LOS ÚLTIMOS SIETE AÑOS HEMOS VISTO ALGUNAS MEJORAS, PERO MUCHO DE CÓMO OBTENEMOS CUBIERTOS PRINCIPALMENTE TIENE QUE VER CUANDO HAY DESTRUCCIÓN DE PROPIEDAD O CUANDO HAY ALGO SENSACIONAL SOBRE UNA PROTESTA. ASÍ QUE TODAVÍA HAY TONELADO DE TRABAJO POR HACER EN TÉRMINOS DE ASEGURARSE DE QUE LA PERSONA DIARIA QUE SINTONIZA UN PROGRAMA DE NOTICIAS O ENCIENDE LAS NOTICIAS Y ESTÁ VER PROTESTAS ENTENDE EN PROFUNDIDAD, ¿DE QUÉ SE TRATA, QUIÉN ESTÁ INVOLUCRADO? ¿POR QUÉ ESTÁN AQUÍ Y POR QUÉ DEBO PREOCUPARME POR ESTO? WES: CREO QUE ES NUESTRO TRABAJO CONTEXTUALIZAR. Y CREO QUE A MENUDO NO HACEMOS EL MEJOR TRABAJO EN ESTO. Y CREO QUE LA MEJOR EXCUSA PARA ESO ES QUE LAS NOTICIAS SE MUEVEN RÁPIDAMENTE Y ES DIFÍCIL. Lamentablemente, sabemos que va a haber otro tiroteo policial, va a haber otra ronda de protestas, puede que haya otra ronda de disturbios. Y POR LO TANTO, SOBRE ESTOS ASUNTOS QUE CUBRIMOS TIEMPO Y TIEMPO OTRA VEZ, NO CREO QUE HAY MUCHA EXCUSA PARA NO MEJORAR EN LA COBERTURA. Y CREO QUE ESA ES UNA DE LAS DIFICULTADES CON ALGUNAS DE LA COBERTURA DE LAS VIDAS NEGRAS IMPORTA. SOLEDAD: ¿PUEDO HACERLE OTRA PREGUNTA? ESCRIBES MUCHO SOBRE OBJETIVIDAD. ¿QUÉ SIGNIFICA PARA TI? ¿QUÉ SIGNIFICA SER OBJETIVO COMO REPORTERO? WES: CREO QUE EL ERROR QUE HACEMOS A VECES ES QUE SUGERIMOS QUE LOS REPORTEROS MISMOS COMO INDIVIDUOS NUNCA VAN A TENER OPINIONES, ¿Cierto? Y LO QUE ESTE CREA ES ESTE JUEGO DE ESCONDER Y BUSCAR, CAPTURA LA BANDERA. DONDE SI ALGUNA VEZ PUEDE PROBAR QUE UN REPORTERO ALGUNA VEZ HA TENIDO UNA OPINIÓN, QUE ALGUNA VEZ HA SIDO AMIGO DE ALGUIEN QUE PODRÍA TENER UNA OPINIÓN, DE REPENTE NO PUEDE CONFIAR EN NINGUNO DE SUS INFORMES. Y VEMOS ESTO MUY A MENUDO ARMADO CONTRA REPORTEROS QUE PUEDEN SER DE UN GRUPO MINORITARIO, JUSTO QUE DE REPENTE SU IDENTIDAD PODRÍA IMPEDIR QUE SEAN CAPAZ DE SER JUSTO. Y EN LO QUE CREO QUE NECESITAMOS ENFOCARNOS EN NUESTRA INDUSTRIA, ES LA JUSTICIA DEL PRODUCTO, ¿CORRECTO? ¿ES FERIA EL PERIODISMO? ¿ESTÁ HACIENDO LAS PREGUNTAS CORRECTAS? ¿ES RESPONSABLE A LA GENTE? Y CREO QUE SI ES CIERTO, EN REALIDAD NO ME IMPORTA CUÁLES SON LAS OPINIONES PERSONALES DEL REPORTERO, ¿Cierto? BUEN TRABAJO ES BUEN TRABAJO. SOLEDAD: ALICIA GARZA, A MENUDO LAS PROTESTAS NO SE CUBREN HASTA QUE SE PONEN VIOLENTAS, ¿Cierto? PORQUE ESO SE CONVIERTE EN "BUENA TV". Y ASÍ QUE LAS PERSONAS QUE SE SIENTAN ALREDEDOR DE CAMINAR POR LA CALLE CON PAZ, ES UN TIPO DE ABURRIDO EN LA TELEVISIÓN. ALICIA: Quiero decir, aquí está la consecuencia de ese tipo de sensacionalismo es que realmente nos perdemos lo que está sucediendo. ASÍ QUE LA REALIDAD ESTÁ EN LA MAYORÍA DE LAS PROTESTAS EN TODO EL PAÍS, NO HAY NINGUNA DESTRUCCIÓN DE PROPIEDAD. QUE EL PUEBLO NEGRO QUE TOMA LAS CALLES SE VE COMO UN PELIGROSO Y ALGO QUE LA GENTE QUIERE VER. SIEMPRE HEMOS SIDO ENMARCADOS DENTRO DE ESTE TIPO DE CONTEXTO DE, USTED SABE, CUANDO LAS PERSONAS NEGRAS SE ENOJAN, HAY DESTRUCCIÓN QUE SUCEDE. Y ES UNA IDEA RACISTA QUE DESAFORTUNADAMENTE ES DURADERA. Y NO ES SÓLO EN LA TELEVISIÓN DE FICCIÓN O REALIDAD, Cierto, TAMBIÉN ESTÁ EN NUESTRA COBERTURA DE NOTICIAS. LA OTRA PIEZA DE ESTA HISTORIA PIENSO, AUNQUE, CON TODO FRANCO, QUE ESTE TIPO DE COBERTURA HA AYUDADO A CONDUCIR HACIA UNA EROSIÓN DE NUESTRA DEMOCRACIA. CUANDO BUSCAMOS LA COBERTURA DE NOTICIAS, CORRECTO, SE SUPONE QUE LA GENTE SERÁ MÁS INTELIGENTE CON LO QUE ESTÁ PASANDO ALREDEDOR DE ELLOS Y SEA MÁS CIUDADANOS COMPROMETIDOS. ESE ES TODO EL PROPÓSITO DEL PERIODISMO. Y SIN EMBARGO, CUANDO HACEMOS ESTOS TIPOS DE FALLAS AL CONTAR HISTORIAS, LO QUE ESTAMOS HACIENDO, MUY FRANCAMENTE, ES NUMERAR A LA GENTE Y DUMBIR A LA GENTE. SOLEDAD: SIEMPRE GUSTO DE VERTE. GRACIAS POR TU TIEMPO. LA PROTESTA Y LA LIBERTAD DE HABLA ESTÁN PROFUNDAMENTE ENTRETELADOS AMBOS CONTRIBUYEN A NUESTRO DIÁLOGO NACIONAL. PLANTEAR CUESTIONES GRAVES. Y ESTÁN DESTINADOS A HACER UN PUNTO. A VECES, LA MEJOR FORMA DE HACER ESE PUNTO ES CON LA COMEDIA. AQUÍ ESTÁ EL COMEDIANTE Y YOUTUBE FINA TRAE CROWDER, EL CO-AUTOR DEL MANIFIESTO LIBERAL REDNECK. TRAE: HABLEMOS DE RIOTS. AQUÍ ESTÁN ALGUNAS ESTADÍSTICAS DE UNA NOCHE. $ 5 MILLONES EN DAÑOS A LA PROPIEDAD, 140 HERIDAS, 9 OFICIALES DE POLICÍA HERIDOS, CUATRO CIVILES APUÑALADOS, 17 COCHES DE POLICÍA INCENDIADOS, INNUMENTOS NEGOCIOS LOCALES SAQUEADOS Y VANDALIZADOS. ESTOY HABLANDO POR SUPUESTO ACERCA DE LOS DIFÍCILES VANCOUVER STANLEY CUP 2011. CUANDO LA MAYORÍA DE LOS CIUDADANOS BLANCOS DE UNA DE LAS CIUDADES MÁS AFUENTES DE AMÉRICA DEL NORTE LA ENCENDIÓ PORQUE SU EQUIPO DE HOCKEY PERDIÓ. Y SI USTED ESTÁ PENSANDO QUE ES UNA COSA DEL HOCKEY DE CANADÁ, BIEN DESPUÉS DEL SUPER BOWL 2018 PHILLY RIOTO PORQUE SU EQUIPO PROLEMENTE NO ESPERABA QUE ESOS EJEMPLOS SALIERAN DE MI BOCA, ¿O sí? ¿POR QUÉ NO? ¿FUE LA CAUSA DE MI ACENTO? SÍ, LO SÉ, ES DIVERTIDO CÓMO FUNCIONA EL SESGO, ¿NO? BIAS COLOREA TODO, INCLUYENDO LAS DIFERENTES PERCEPCIONES ENTRE BLANCO RIOT Y NEGRO. MUCHOS DE USTEDES PROBABLEMENTE NUNCA RECORDARON EL RIOT DE LA VANCOUVER CUP, PORQUE A NADIE NUNCA SE PREOCUPÓ REALMENTE. LAS PERSONAS BLANCAS TAMBIÉN TIENEN MUCHO MÁS DESAFÍOS CON SUS NOMBRES, ALGUNOS DE LOS CUALES SON SOBRE COSAS, COMO LAS CALABAZAS Y LOS ENTRENADORES DE FÚTBOL UNIVERSITARIOS DESPEDIDOS. ESOS SON REALES. PUEDE GOOGLEARLO. PERO LA MAYORÍA VUELAN BAJO EL RADAR. ¿POR QUÉ? ¿ES PORQUE LAS PERSONAS BLANCAS TIENEN A RIOTAR POR RAZONES CÓMICAMENTE ESTEREOTIPICAS Y TRIVIALES? COMO, NO HE CONFIRMADO ESTE, PERO CREO QUE EXISTE UNA OPORTUNIDAD JUSTA A MEDIA HABÍA UN ALREDEDOR MAYONESA EN NEW HAMPSHIRE EN LOS '80. ¿O ES PORQUE LA SOCIEDAD SÓLO MIRA A LOS BLANCOS DE FORMA DIFERENTE? PORQUE INCLUSO CUANDO LAS RAZONES DE UN DESAFÍO BLANCO SON OBJETIVAMENTE ALEJADAS E INDEFENSIBLES, LI EN CHARLOTTESVILLE, TODAVÍA TIENE AL PRESIDENTE DICIENDO QUE HABÍA MUCHA BUENA GENTE INVOLUCRADA. TAMBIÉN, APARENTEMENTE ESTÁ BIEN QUE LAS PERSONAS MARCHEN EN LA CAPITAL CON AR'S ATRAPADAS A ÉL PARA PROTESTAR POR LOS DERECHOS COVIDOS, DEBIDO A LA SEGUNDA ENMIENDA, PERO NO ESTÁ BIEN QUE LAS PERSONAS PROTESTEN POR SUS VIDAS BAJO LA 14ª O 15ª ENMIENDA BIEN POR UNO LLAMABLE, NO PUEDO. NO PUEDO. Todos sabrán lo que quiero decir. ES TONTO. ESO ES MUDO. ES ESPECIALMENTE TONTO, PORQUE SE DAN CUENTA O NO, LOS RACISISTAS HAN MOSTRADO SU MANO EN ESTE PUNTO. VEA QUE SOLICITARON ACTUAR COMO QUE ESTÁ BIEN PROTESTAR, SÓLO QUE HABÍA UNA MANERA CORRECTA Y UNA MANERA INCORRECTA DE HACERLO. PERO SI USTED ES BLANCO Y EL PORTERO TUVO UNA MALA NOCHE, ENTONCES QUEMARLO, STEVE. PERO YO DIVAGO. PERO COLIN KAEPERNICK ILUSTRADO Y EL COMIENZO DE LA TEMPORADA DE LA NFL DE ESTE AÑO CONFIRMÓ QUE AL QUE ES BULL. Eso también es tonto. EN CASO DE QUE TE LO PIERDAS, DURANTE EL PRIMER JUEGO DE LA TEMPORADA DE LA NFL EN KANSAS CITY, LOS JUGADORES DE AMBOS EQUIPOS BLOQUEARON LOS BRAZOS MIENTRAS ESTÁN DE PIE , NO DE ARRODILLAS, EN UNA EXHIBICIÓN DE UNIDAD Y FUERON BOO-ED SIN MISERICORDIA POR LOS FANÁTICOS DESCUBIERTOS DE LOS JEFES DE ASISTENCIA. BOO BLACKS. ¡ABOGARON EL CONCEPTO DE UNIDAD COMO ESPECIE, TODOS! Y ESO PRUEBA QUE NO SE TRATA DE LOS ALTIRAMIENTOS PARA ELLOS, NUNCA SE HA TRATADO DE LOS ALTIRAMIENTOS, NO SON LAS ACCIONES DE UNA MINÚSCULA FRACCIÓN DE PERSONAS EN ESTAS PROTESTAS LO QUE LOS MOLESTA, SON LAS OPINIONES QUE EL PUEBLO NEGRO QUE ORGANIZA LA PROTESTA TENÍA LA AUDACIDAD PARA MOSTRAR EN PUBLI ¿CÓMO SE ATREVAN? NO HAY FORMA DE EXHIBICIÓN PÚBLICA QUE LAS PERSONAS DE COLOR QUE SIEMPRE ACEPTARÁN, EN LA MEDIDA EN QUE ME PREOCUPE LA CONCLUSIÓN LÓGICA DE ESO ES SIGUEN DANDO VUELTA A TODOS, ESTAMOS LLEGANDO A EM, ¡SÍ! SOLEDAD: A VECES UN ACTOR CONVERTIRÁ SU ARTE EN PROTESTA. ESA ES LA HISTORIA DE RAPPER GENESIS BE, CUYO NOMBRE REAL ES GENESIS ISRAELI ROSE SCHMITZ BRIGGS BE. LLEVÓ AL ESCENARIO HACE CUATRO AÑOS CON UNA BANDERA CONFEDERADA Y UN LAGUE ALREDEDOR DE SU CUELLO PROTESTA POR LA INJUSTICIA RACIAL. MISSISSIPPI ES UN MICROCOSMOS DE UN PAÍS QUE SIEMPRE ME NECESITÓ, PERO NUNCA ME QUERÓ. YO SOY GENESIS BE. MI PRIMERA INTRODUCCIÓN A LA RELIGIÓN FUE CRIADO MUSULMAN. AMBOS DE MIS PADRES SE CONVERTIERON AL ISLAM ANTES DE QUE YO NACIERA. MI MADRE ES UNA MUJER BLANCA CATÓLICA DE WISCONSIN. MI PADRE ES UN BAUTISTA MA NEGRO, DE MISSISSIPPI. MI MELANINA ES PIEL ES UN PECADO. ENVIADOS A CONSTRUIR TU ECONOMA PACK LAS PRISIONES. LLENE LA CUOTA. HÁGANOS SENTIMIENTOS, NUNCA VOTANTES. ESTOY DE GIRA AHORA CON UN GRUPO LLAMADO VOTO BIEN COMÚN. Y TODOS SON LÍDERES CRISTIANOS. ESTÁN ENTRANDO EN OTROS TERRITORIOS CRISTIANOS, TERRITORIOS CRISTIANOS BLANCOS, PARA TRATAR DE HACERLOS APELAR CON MORALIDAD EN LUGAR DE LA ALEGANCIA DEL PARTIDO, Y HACIENDO ESTAS PREGUNTAS REALMENTE DIFÍCILES COMO "¿JESÚS ESTARÍA BIEN CON LOS NIÑOS? & gt; & gt; ♪ OH SÍ, TOMO UNO Y NO ME SIGNIFICA UNA PÍLDORA. ESTOY HABLANDO DE PAGAR MIS PRÉSTAMOS ESTUDIANTILES SIN UN ACUERDO. Convirtió a mis odiadores en creyentes. EN LO REAL, ¿CÓMO SE SIENTE? HABLAR, SALTAR EL COMPROMISO. SÓLO ENTRAMOS PARA MATAR ♪ GENESIS: LLEGA UN PUNTO DONDE NUESTRA NACIÓN TIENE QUE RECONOCER LA BRUTALIDAD DEL PASADO Y DESCUBRIR UNA MANERA DE SANAR, O NEGAR LA BRUTALIDAD DEL PASADO, NEGAR SU HISTORIA Y PERMITIR A LA DIVISIÓN RIP IT APART. 2016 HICE UNA PROTESTA EN SOB'S AQUÍ EN NUEVA YORK. EL GOBERNADOR DE MISSISSIPPI, PH BRYANT, RECIBIÓ EL NOMBRE DEL MES DEL PATRIMONIO CONFEDERADO DE ABRIL. Y estaba enojado. Así que fui, compré una bandera, compré una soga, me envolví con la bandera de la Confederación Completa, me colgué una soga alrededor del cuello y tuve algunas palabras de elección para mi gobernador mississippi, llamado mes de abril del patrimonio confederado. TIENEN LA AUDACIDAD DE NOMBRAR EL MES DEL PATRIMONIO CONFEDERADO DE ABRIL. CUANDO LA BANDERA POR FIN BAJÓ, ​​TIENES QUE ENTENDER, COMO DURANTE ESE MOMENTO, ESTABA A LA ALTURA DE LAS PROTESTAS DE GEORGE FLOYD. Y yo estaba en Mississippi en ese momento. Había vuelto. Sabía que iba a ser un punto donde teníamos que golpear mientras el hierro esté caliente. TAN LITERALMENTE DENTRO DE UNA SEMANA HE VISTO EL CAMBIO DE CONVERSACIÓN EN MISSISSIPPI. ASÍ QUE VERLO BAJAR DENTRO DE MI VIDA Y COMO SI FUERA JOVEN Y TENGA ENERGÍA, ES UNA BENDICIÓN. ES UNA BENDICIÓN. & gt; & gt; ♪ ¿ME CONOCES NO DICES NADA NO CAMBIA LO QUE ESTÁS DICIENDO? MATAR EL RUIDO. NO ESTÁ CARGANDO, SÓLO QUEJANDO ♪ GENESIS: PONEMOS DEMASIADO ENFASIS EN LOS CANDIDATOS PRESIDENCIALES. Y ASIGNAR TANTO PODER A CUALQUIER HOMBRE, EVENTUALMENTE, TE DEJARÁ SIN PODER. USTED SABE, ASÍ QUE ESE ES MI MENSAJE. CUANDO HABLO CON ESTAS MUCHEDUMBRES, LES DIGO, "USTED ASUME RESPONSABILIDAD. USTED ASUME LA RESPONSABILIDAD DE SUS PROPIAS ACCIONES Y SE PREGUNTA CADA DÍA, ¿CÓMO ESTÁ PERPETUANDO DIVISIÓN?" USTED DICE QUE ESTÁ EN CONTRA DEL SEXISMO O CONTRA EL RACISMO Y TODAS ESTAS COSAS. PERO ¿QUÉ ESTÁ HACIENDO PERSONALMENTE PARA DESMONTAR AMBAS INSTITUCIONES? DERECHO. PORQUE TIENE QUE VENIR DEL PUEBLO. SOLEDAD: EL SESGO Y LA DESIGUALDAD RACIAL QUE DE ÉL DESGASTA A LA GENTE. CREA DIVISIONES. EMPUJA A LA GENTE A PROTESTAR. ESE ES EL PUNTO QUE EL ANTIGUO CUARTERBACK DE LA NFL, COLLIN KAEPERNICK, HABÍA HACIENDO UNA RODILLA DURANTE EL HIMNO NACIONAL. UN ACTO DE PROTESTA QUE CAPTURÓ LA ATENCIÓN NACIONAL Y MOTIVÓ A LA ACCIÓN A OTROS ATLETAS. UNIRSE A NOSOTROS PARA HABLAR SOBRE ATLETAS Y ACTIVISMO, EL PERIODISTA DEPORTIVO JEMELE HILL, EL JUGADOR JUBILADO DE LA NBA Y AUTOR ETAN THOMAS, Y LA SOCIÓLOGA - SOCIÓLOGA, DR. RASHAWN RAY. SOLEDAD: VOLVER EN 2019 EN UNA PIEZA QUE HICISTE PARA "EL ATLÁNTICO", ESCRIBIÓ ESTO. LA NFL DESARROLLÓ UNA FORMA MODERNA DE UN ESCENARIO MUY FAMILIAR EN LA HISTORIA AMERICANA. LA LIGA MOSTRÓ A LOS EMPLEADOS NEGROS QUE SU MEDIDA DE VIDA SERÍA DESTRUIDA SI Cuestionaban el dominio blanco y amenazaban a los sistemas que han oprimido a las personas de color durante siglos. ¿CREES QUE HA CAMBIADO EN EL AÑO APROXIMADO DESDE QUE LO HAS ESCRITO? MUCHAS MÁS PERSONAS, MUCHOS MÁS ATLETAS SE ESTÁN ARRODILLANDO AHORA. JEMELE: ESTAMOS HABLANDO DE UNA LIGA QUE HA UTILIZADO MANO DE OBRA NEGRA PARA GENERAR RIQUEZA BLANCA. HAY UNA LARGA HISTORIA DE PERSONAS NEGRAS QUE SON ACEPTADAS PARA EL ENTRETENIMIENTO QUE PROPORCIONAN HASTA EL PUNTO DE QUE RECUERDAN A QUIENES ESTÁN PAGANDO O DANDO CUALQUIER PLATAFORMA O EMPLEANDO EN CUALQUIER MANERA, HASTA QUE LE RECUERDAN QUE LOS NEGROS ACTUAN TENGO QUE VIVIR EN AMERICA. EN EL MOMENTO QUE EMPIEZAS A HABLAR SOBRE EL RACISMO INSTITUCIONAL Y LAS ESTRUCTURAS QUE OPRIMEN A PERSONAS COMO USTED, ES EN EL MOMENTO QUE NO QUIEREN ESCUCHAR MÁS DE ELLOS Y SOLO QUIEREN GUARDARLOS EN ESTE CUADRO PARTICULAR Y MANTENER EL COMPARTIMIENTO PORQUE TALIZADO. MÁS FÁCIL DE DESHUMANIZARLOS. SOLEDAD: EL 12 DE SEPTIEMBRE FUE EL MOMENTO DE LA UNIDAD, KANSAS CITY VERSUS HOUSTON, Y HABÍA BOOING BONITAMENTE CLARAMENTE Y LUEGO ANIMANDO QUE PODRÍA OÍR. ¿CÓMO INTERPRETASTE ESE MOMENTO? JEMELE: Quiero decir, seamos honestos. ESTA ES LA PROTESTA MÁS GENTRIFICADA QUE PUEDES IMAGINAR. TIENES JUGADORES Y BRAZOS BLOQUEADOS. NO SE ESTÁ REPRODUCIENDO UN HIMNO NACIONAL. EL MENSAJE ES UNIDAD. ESTO SIEMPRE FUE SOBRE UNA COSA. EL HECHO DE QUE LAS PERSONAS QUE ABOGARON Y ESTARON EN CONTRA DE ESTAS PROTESTAS NO QUIEREN ESCUCHAR A LOS NEGROS HABLAR SOBRE LAS CONDICIONES, LAS CONDICIONES REALES DE LO QUE ES SER NEGRO EN AMÉRICA. SIEMPRE ES ASÍ. ASÍ QUE NI SE TRATA DE LA BANDERA. NO SE TRATA DE LOS MILITARES. NO SE TRATA DE NINGUNA DE ESTAS OTRAS DISTRACCIONES. SIEMPRE HAN INTENTADO HACER ESTE PROBLEMA. SE TRATA DEL HECHO SIMPLE DE QUE EN ESTE PAÍS, SIEMPRE QUE LAS PERSONAS NEGRAS HABLAN DE IGUALDAD Y LUCHA POR LA IGUALDAD, SE ENCUENTRA CON RESISTENCIA. Y EN ESTE CASO SE ENCUENTRA SOLO CON LA RESISTENCIA DE LAS PERSONAS QUE DICEN, NO NOS IMPORTA LO QUE USTED NOS DIGA, TODAVÍA NO IMPORTA. ETAN: PODRÍA HABER SIDO UN MOMENTO TAN INCREÍBLE, ¿SABE? Y PODRÍA HABER SIDO TODAS ESTAS GRANDES COSAS, ESPECIALMENTE QUE LLEVARON AL 9/11. PERO SÓLO FUE LO OPUESTO. USTED SABE, NO CREO QUE FUE UN EXTRAORDINARIO. NO CREO QUE FUERA ALGO QUE, USTED SABE, NO ESTÁ DIRECTAMENTE CONECTADO A NUESTRA NACIÓN EN SU TOTALIDAD. HAY ESTA INCREÍBLE DIVISIÓN Y HAY GENTE QUE NO ESTÁN DEL LADO DE LA IGUALDAD. USTED SABE, NO EN EL LADO DE LA JUSTICIA NO EN EL LADO DEL ANTIRACISMO. SOLEDAD: Rashawn, tuiteaste el otro día, y solo parafrasearé que esta idea de que las protestas se habían convertido en políticas, de que de alguna manera se luchó para convertirlas en un punto de vista político versus un punto de vista moral. Y USTED DICE QUE DEBEN SER REALMENTE MORALES. DR. RAY: SABE, ES MUY PROBLEMÁTICO VER GENTE POLITICIANDO ESTO. ASÍ QUE TENEMOS QUE SER MUY CLAROS Y ES POR SUPUESTO, LA MAYORÍA DE LA GENTE SABE ESTO, QUE AHORA ESTAMOS VIVIENDO EN UN NIVEL DE PARTIDARIO POLÍTICO QUE REALMENTE NO HEMOS EXPERIMENTADO EN LA HISTORIA MODERNA Y EN ESTE MOMENTO, CUANDO LA GENTE ESTÁ TWEETING Y HACIENDO DECLARACIONES COMO, "OH, NO ENCENDO LA NFL O LA NBA PARA VER ALGO POLÍTICO". LA JUSTICIA RACIAL NO ES POLÍTICA. ES UNA CUESTIÓN MORAL. ES UN ASUNTO CIVIL. ES UN PROBLEMA HUMANO. Y CUANDO LO POLITIZAMOS, DESTACO LA MANERA EN QUE LAS PERSONAS SON CAPAZ DE DESCARTARLO. SOLEDA JEMELE, EL PAPEL DE LA WNBA HA SIDO MUY DESTACADO. PERO A MENUDO LAS MUJERES SE QUEDAN FUERA DE ESTA CONVERSACIÓN, ALGO DE CUANDO HABLAMOS DE ATLETAS, PIENSO QUE LA GENTE LITERALMENTE EN SU MENTE PIENSA EN ATLETAS MASCULINOS. JEMELE: ESTAS MUJERES ESTÁN UTILIZADAS PARA ESTA LUCHA. ESTÁN USADOS A TENER QUE LUCHAR POR EL RESPETO. POR LA IGUALDAD PORQUE LA MAYORÍA DE ELLOS LO HAN HECHO TODAS SUS CARRERAS. HAN ESTADO EN SITUACIONES DONDE SUS LOGROS Y ELLOS SIMPLEMENTE TENIENDO ACCESO A SU DEPORTE SE HA MINIMIZADO O NO HAN TENIDO EL MISMO ACCESO QUE YO ASÍ QUE ESTÁN MEJOR EQUIPADOS PARA COMBATIR ESTO QUE PRÁCTICAMENTE CUALQUIER PERSONA QUE SE COLOQUE CON LO QUE SE HAGA. HA SIDO. SOLEDAD: ETAN, DOC RIVERS DIJO ESTA COSA QUE FUE TAN DIFÍCIL DE OBSERVAR, FUE TAN EMOCIONAL, DIJO, USTED SABE, "NOSOTROS LOS NEGROS AMAMOS ESTE PAÍS Y ESTE PAÍS NO NOS AMA ". ETAN: SABES, TODA PERSONA NEGRA LO SENTIRO EN ESO, COMO SENTIRO SU EMOCION, COMPRENDIO EXACTAMENTE LO QUE DICIENDO, QUE NOSOTROS, SABEMOS, TE ENCANTA ESTE PAIS Y NACIDAS AQUI Y TIENES ESTA HISTORIA AQUI Y TODO ASÍ. PERO EL PAÍS NO TE AMA DE NUEVO, ¿SABES? Y ENTONCES LA PRIMERA LA PRIMERA REACCIÓN ES, OH, BIEN, USTED GANA ESTA CANTIDAD DE DINERO. NO SE TRATA DE DINERO, ¿SABES A LO QUE ME SIENTO? PORQUE SI SALGO AHORA MISMO Y ESTOY CONDUCIENDO EN LA CALLE Y ME PARE LA POLICÍA, NO IMPORTA CUÁL ES MI, MI 401K, NO IMPORTA CUÁL ES MI PORTAFOLIO CUÁL ES MI GRADO . TODO LO QUE VEN ES UN HOMBRE NEGRO QUE ES UNA AMENAZA Y EN ESE PUNTO, TIENES QUE CONVENCER AL OFICIAL DE QUE TE Mire como un humano y no a matarte, esa no es una situación con la que los blancos tengan que lidiar . SOLEDAD: RASHAWN, ¿VES EL ACTIVISMO DE LOS ATLETAS, ATLETAS NEGROS ESPECÍFICAMENTE TENIENDO UN IMPACTO MÁS ALLÁ DE LA CONCIENCIA Y MÁS ALLÁ DE TIPO DE ELEVAR LA HISTORIA? DR. RAY: SÍ, LO HAGO COMPLETAMENTE. Quiero decir, así que escribí una pieza en la institución Brookings como, ¿qué deben exigir los atletas en este momento? REALMENTE DEBEN ESTAR EXIGIENDO QUE EL DINERO DE SUS IMPUESTOS NO SE UTILICE PARA ESTOS PAGOS CIVILES. DEBEMOS HACER UN CAMBIO DE DINERO DEL CONTRIBUYENTE A LAS POLÍTICAS DE SEGURO DEL DEPARTAMENTO DE POLICÍA. LA SEGUNDA COSA GRANDE ES QUE DEBEN ABOGAR LA LEY DE JUSTICIA Y POLÍTICAS DE GEORGE FLOYD. LA CASA DE REPRESENTANTES APROBÓ ESTE PROYECTO DIRIGIDO POR CONGRESSWOMAN BASS. ES LA REFORMA POLICIAL MÁS PROGRESIVA Y TRANSFORMADORA QUE HEMOS TENIDO PROBABLEMENTE EN LA HISTORIA AMERICANA. Y CREO QUE CUANDO SE TRATA DE RESPONSABILIZAR A LOS FUNCIONARIOS, NO SE TRATA SIMPLEMENTE DE HACER Y - HACER ENTRENAMIENTOS DE SESGO IMPLÍCITOS QUE HE HECHO CON MILES DE FUNCIONARIOS O DE HACERLOS PONER CÁMARAS EN EL CUERPO. SÍ, ESO AYUDA A LA CONCIENCIA, PERO TENEMOS QUE CAMBIAR LA ESTRUCTURA DE RESPONSABILIDAD. SOLEDAD: A TODOS USTEDES, MUCHAS GRACIAS POR ESTA CONVERSACIÓN. REALMENTE LO APRECIO. RASHAWN RAY Y JEMELE HILL Y ETAN THOMAS, GRACIAS, LOS CHICOS PREGUNTAN A CUALQUIER PERSONA DE COLOR, Y TE Dirán que el sesgo es omnipresente. EL BIAS VIENE A USTED. CÓMO TE MIRA LA GENTE CÓMO TE TAMAÑO. EN LAS EXPECTATIVAS QUE TIENEN PARA USTED. UN AMIGO MÍO, WES MOORE, ESCRIBIÓ UN LIBRO SOBRE EL IMPACTO DE ESAS EXPECTATIVAS. UN LIBRO QUE SE CONVIERTE EN UN BESTSELLER DEL NEW YORK TIMES. TITULADO, EL OTRO WES MOORE, CUENTA LA HISTORIA DE DOS NIÑOS NACIDOS EN BLOQUES SEPARADOS, EN BARRIOS SIMILARES DE BALTIMORE. UNO CRECIÓ COMO ASESINO CONDENADO SIRVIENDO UNA SENTENCIA DE VIDA. EL OTRO, UN VETERANO, EMPRENDEDOR SOCIAL Y CEO DE RHODES SCHOLA. WES MOORE, AGRADABLE DE VER. SU FAMOSO LIBRO FUE LLAMADO "EL OTRO WES MOORE", Y FUE SOBRE USTED, PERO NO SOBRE USTED FUE SOBRE OTRO TIPO, PERO EN REALIDAD, FUE UNA MIRADA DE ACCESO Y OPORTUNIDAD. CUÉNTAME UN POCO SOBRE ESE LIBRO. WES: ESE LIBRO REALMENTE COMENZÓ EL DÍA DESPUÉS DE RECIBIR LA BECA DE RHODES, CÓMO EL SOL DE BALTIMORE ESCRIBIÓ ESTE ARTÍCULO SOBRE MI VIDA Y MI VIAJE Y CÓMO ESTE NIÑO LOCAL QUE TENÍA RETOS EN LA PRÓXIMA B AHORA ESTÁ OBTENIENDO LA BECA PARA SUPERAR Y VAYA A ESTUDIAR AL MISMO TIEMPO, ESTÁN ESCRIBIENDO UNA SERIE COMPLETA DE ARTÍCULOS, SOBRE CUATRO CHICOS QUE ENTRAN EN UNA TIENDA DE JOYERÍA Y EN EL PROCESO DE UN ROBO A ARMADO DESPUÉS DE QUE EL OFICIAL DE POLICÍA FUE MATADO. Y UNA DE LAS PERSONAS QUE BUSCABA LA POLICÍA FUE EN REALIDAD CAPTURADA, JUZGADA Y CONDENADA POR ESTE CRIMEN FUE UN CHICO CUYO NOMBRE TAMBIÉN ERA WEST MOORE. Y ÉRAMOS DE LAS MISMAS ZONAS EN LA MISMA EDAD. AMBOS CRECEMOS EN HOGARES DE PADRES SOLTEROS. AMBOS TUVIMOS PROBLEMAS ACADÉMICOS Y DISCIPLINARIOS. Y cuanto más lo conocí, más nos convertimos en amigos, más comencé a darme cuenta de lo rápidos que somos como sociedad, somos tan rápidos para felicitarnos o castigarnos sin que nunca pudiéramos comprender las dinámicas, los caminos y los viajes. OPORTUNIDADES. Y COMO SE DIJO, EL HECHO DE QUE DE MUCHAS MANERAS TERMINAMOS CONVERTIRNOS EN PRODUCTOS DE NUESTRAS EXPECTATIVAS. SOLEDAD: HOY, USTED ES EL CEO DE ROBIN HOOD Y ESTÁ MUCHO ENFOCADO, ROBIN HOOD ESTÁ MUCHO ENFOCADO EN LA POBREZA Y TERMINAR CON LA POBREZA. EXPLIQUE A TODOS CÓMO LA RAZA INTERSECTA CON LA POBREZA. WES: RACE ES EL INDICADOR MÁS PREDICTIVO, MÁS Y MÁS PREDICTIVO DE LOS RESULTADOS DE VIDA QUE VEMOS. TODO, DESDE INGRESOS Y RIQUEZA HASTA EL LOGRO EDUCATIVO Y LA MORTALIDAD MATERNA. TODO BIEN. EL HECHO DE QUE, USTED SABE, EL HECHO DE QUE TENEMOS UNA BRECHA DE RIQUEZA RACIAL DE 10 A UNO EN ESTE PAÍS NO ES PORQUE UNA FAMILIA TRABAJA 10 VECES MÁS DURO. EL HECHO DE QUE AHORA MISMO, ES VERDADERO ESTADÍSTICO DE QUE UNA PERSONA BLANCA RECIENTEMENTE SALIDA DE LA PRISIÓN TIENE MAYORES POSIBILIDADES DE OBTENER UN TRABAJO DE NIVEL DE ENTRADA QUE UNA PERSONA NEGRA SIN NINGÚN TIPO DE PARTICIPACIÓN CRIMINAL. Y ENTONCES TODAS ESTAS COSAS, PIENSO CUANDO ESTAMOS HABLANDO DE CUÁL ES LA CORRELACIÓN ENTRE RAZA Y POBREZA O LA GENTE DICE, OH, NO ES RAZA. ES POBREZA. NO PUEDES SEPARAR LOS DOS. SI USTED ESTÁ BUSCANDO NO SÓLO LA HISTORIA CON LA QUE ENTONCES TENEMOS QUE CONTENER, PERO ESTA TODAVÍA SE HORNE EN INFRAESTRUCTURA QUE TODAVÍA TENEMOS QUE TRATAR DE SUPERAR. SOLEDAD: ESTÁS TRABAJANDO EN UNA NUEVA INICIATIVA EN ROBIN HOOD QUE MIRA QUIÉN GANA EL DINERO EN FILANTROPÍA HABLA CONMIGO SOBRE LO QUE ESTÁS TRATANDO DE RESOLVER Y POR QUÉ. SI MIRA MÁS DE LAS ÚLTIMAS DOS DÉCADAS, LA FILANTROPÍA EN SU TOTALIDAD, ALREDEDOR DEL 10 POR CIENTO DE TODOS LOS DÓLARES FILANTÓPICOS HAN IDO A LAS ORGANIZACIONES DIRIGIDAS POR PERSONAS DE COLOR, EL 10 POR CIENTO. SOLEDA ¿POR QUÉ ES IMPORTANTE? ALGUIEN PODRÍA DECIR, ¿A QUIÉN LE IMPORTA QUIÉN LO LIDERA? MIENTRAS QUIEN ESTE LIDERANDO, EN REALIDAD ESTÁ AYUDANDO A LAS PERSONAS QUE NECESITAN ESOS DÓLARES FILANTROPICOS. Entonces, diría que es importante por dos razones diferentes. UNO ES LA PROXIMIDAD QUE IMPORTA. LA PROXIMIDAD IMPORTA PORQUE LAS PERSONAS QUE ESTÁN MÁS CERCANAS AL DESAFÍO SON A MENUDO LAS PERSONAS QUE ESTÁN MÁS CERCA DE LAS SOLUCIONES. Y CON FRECUENCIA NUNCA ESTÁN EN LA MESA. SI SU FILANTROPIA Y SU DONACIÓN DE SUBVENCIÓN NO SE HACEN CON UN VERDADERO ESPÍRITU DE ASOCIACIÓN Y LA LIBERACIÓN DE PODER, SU ALTRUISMO SERÁ VISTO COMO ALGO MÁS. SU ALTRUISMO SERÁ VISTO COMO PATERNALIS Y NO HAY NADA MÁS PELIGROSO CUANDO SE TRATA DE AYUDAR A, USTED SABE, A RESOLVER LOS PROBLEMAS DE NUESTRA COMUNIDAD QUE UNA PERSONA QUE CAMINA PENSANDO QUE LAS PERSONAS A LAS QUE USTED ESTA AQUÍ PARA SERVIR SERVIR SON PERSONAS QUE NECESITAN SER FIJAS SOLEDAD: HE TENIDO ALGUNAS CONVERSACIONES CON GRANDES ORGANIZACIONES FILANTROPICAS Y FILANTROPICAS Y HE ENCONTRADO QUE A MENUDO PERSONAS QUE ESTAN MUY EN LA FILANTROPIA Y QUE DAN MUCHO DINERO REALMENTE SE SIENTEN CÓMODAS CON CIERTOS TIPOS DE MENTK BUTY OWALTHROPIC. PROPIEDAD O RIQUEZA. Y NO SON NIÑOS Y MOCHILAS Y HUGGY PHOTO OP. CONSIGUE UN POCO WES INCÓMODO: Y TIENEN QUE COMPRENDER POR QUÉ SU FILANTROPÍA ES NECESARIA EN PRIMER LUGAR. Y ES PORQUE NO ABORDAMOS ESTOS PROBLEMAS MÁS GRANDES. Y APLAVO A TODO EL QUE DICE QUE QUIERO PODER DAR MI CAPITAL HACIA LA FILANTROPIA. TAMBIÉN SÉ QUE ESTO, DE HECHO, ES UNA COTIZACIÓN QUE SE SIENTA EN MI ESCRITORIO EN MI OFICINA DEL DR. REY. Y DICE, LA FILANTROPÍA ES ENOMBABLE. PERO LOS FILANTROPISTAS NUNCA PUEDEN OLVIDAR LA INJUSTICIA ECONÓMICA QUE HACE NECESARIA LA FILANTROPIA. SOLEDAD: EXPLIQUE CÓMO EL SESGO SE ENCAJA EN TODO ESTO ¿CÓMO EL SESGO CREA LA PREVENCIÓN DE OPORTUNIDADES O EL SESGO CONTRIBUYE A LA DESIGUALDAD? CREO QUE EL SESGO ES MUY IMPORTANTE, ENTIENDO, PORQUE EL SESGO ES LO QUE CONSTRUYÓ SISTEMAS. EL SESGO ES EN REALIDAD LO QUE NUBES, PREGUNTAS QUE HAY QUE HACER O RESPUESTA. EL SESGO ES LO QUE NOSOTROS SÓLO ESOS SON LOS ESOS SON LAS COSAS QUE DECIDIMOS CON EL FIN. Y entonces creo que la parte de la razón por la que tenemos que entender que el sesgo existe. TAMBIÉN PERMITE QUE CUANDO VEMOS LOS DATOS, LOS DATOS NO SON LOS DATOS ACCIDENTALMENTE. DERECHO. ASÍ QUE, CUANDO MIRAMOS LAS DISPARIDADES QUE EXISTEN EN LA BRECHA DE RIQUEZA RACIAL, ESO NO ES SÓLO PORQUE ASÍ ES LA FORMA EN QUE HA SIDO. EL SESGO ES ALGO QUE SI LOS DATOS CONTINÚAN MOSTRANDO ALGO, SI NO PODEMOS ACTUAR EN ELLO Y SEGUIR. Y SI NO PODEMOS ENTENDER POR QUÉ ESAS DISCREPANCIAS EXISTEN EN PRIMER LUGAR. Eso no es solo un sesgo. TAMBIÉN FUE EN UN DESCONOCIMIENTO DE UN SESGO QUE VIMOS ANTES. POR LO QUE CREA LOS PROBLEMAS MÁS GRANDES DE LOS QUE HEMOS ESTADO HABLANDO. SOLEDAD: WES MOORE, TAN BUEN VERLOS. CONVERSACIONES COMO LAS QUE ESTAMOS TENIENDO AHORA SON IMPUESTOS. SI USTED ESTÁ PENSANDO QUE HEMOS PASADO POR ESTO ANTES. TIENES RAZÓN. ¿POR QUÉ AÚN ESTAMOS AQUÍ? LA LUCHA POR LA JUSTICIA RACIAL Y LOS DERECHOS CIVILES QUE RECUERDA DE LOS AÑOS 60 ESTÁ EN CURSO. LAS IMÁGENES EN BLANCO Y NEGRO DE LA ÉPOCA, FAMILIARES. UNA VOZ IMPORTANTE Y PROVOCATIVA DE ESA ERA FUE JAMES BALDWIN. BALDWIN, ensayista, novelista y dramaturgo, abordó el problema de la desigualdad racial con un comportamiento directo e inquebrantable. EN JULIO DE 1968, LA REVISTA ESQUIRE PUBLICÓ UNA ENTREVISTA CON BALDWIN. FUE IMPRIMIR TRAS EL ASESINATO DEL DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING HIJO. ENTONCES LA CONVERSACIÓN REFLEJÓ LA CRISIS EN EL PAÍS. Y AHORA. INVITAMOS A MICHAEL SEBASTIAN, QUE AHORA ES EL EDITOR EN JEFE DE ESQUIRE, A CONVERSAR CON UN ESTUDIANTE BALWIN, EL PROFESOR DE PRINCETON EDDIE GLAUDE. LE PREGUNTAMOS CÓMO SERÍA ESA ENTREVISTA HOY. ¿SE HACEN LAS MISMAS PREGUNTAS & gt; & gt; PROFESOR, QUIERO EMPEZAR POR UNA TIPO DE CONTEXTUALIZAR ESTA ENTREVISTA A JAMES BALDWIN EN 1968. SALIÓ EN EL NÚMERO DE JULIO. ESO SIGNIFICA QUE HABRÍAN ESTADO PRODUCIENDO ESE PROBLEMA EN ABRIL O MAYO. Y QUE HABRÍA SIDO DESPUÉS DEL ASESINAMIENTO DE MARTIN LUTHER KING JUNIOR. PERO SOY SOLO CURIOSO, ¿PUEDE USTED ROMPER DONDE ERA LA CABEZA DE JAMES BALDWIN, COMO LO ESTÁ HACIENDO COMO ESTÁ HACIENDO ESTA ENTREVISTA EN ESTE MOMENTO? PROFE. GLAUDE: se entera de que KING es asesinada mientras que él está en California, en Hollywood, el intento de trabajo sobre este DISASTROUS LLEVAR la autobiografía de Malcolm X en la pantalla. Y RECIBE UNA LLAMADA TELEFÓNICA. BILLY DEE WILLIAMS ESTÁ ALLÍ PORQUE QUIERE LA CAPACIDAD DE JUGAR MALCOLM. Y RECIBE LA LLAMADA DE TELÉFONO QUE DICE QUE EL REY HA SIDO DISPARADO. ESTÁ VIVO, PERO NO SE VE BIEN. Y BILLY DEE WILLIAMS DESCRIBEN EL MOMENTO BALDWIN EN EFECTO, SE COLAPSA Y EMPIEZA A LLORAR. Y DICE QUE NUNCA HA PENSADO QUE JIMMY LO SUPERÓ. ASI QUE PIENSO EL ASESINATO DEL DR. EL REY EN 68 LE HIZO ALGUNAS PREGUNTAS SOBRE LA CAPACIDAD DEL PAÍS Y LA CAPACIDAD Y LA CAPACIDAD MORAL DE LOS QUE TOMARÍAN, QUITARÍAN LA VIDA DE LA PERSONA QUE LLAMÓ EL APÓSTOL DEL AMOR. & gt; & gt; ASÍ QUE ME PARECE QUE HAY ESTO ESTO ESTO, ADIVINO, ENOJADO DE QUE ESTAMOS, ESTAMOS TAPPI HACIA LA DERECHA EN MIEDO. Y QUIERO, ES CRUDO, SE SIENTE MUY CRUDO. PROFE. GLAUDE: Bueno, no es miedo, es rabia. Furia sin adulterio. ES ALGO QUE ESTÁ Lidiando CON ELLOS ACABAN DE PONER AL REY EN EL TERRENO SÓLO LO PONEN EN EL TERRENO Y ¿OYEN LO QUE LOS REPORTEROS LE ESTÁN PREGUNTANDO? THE WAY IN WHICH THEY'RE ASKING THE QUESTION. AND, AND LITERALLY, HE'S STILL GRAPPLING WITH GRIEF IN THAT MOMENT. HE SHOWED A LOT OF RESTRAINT, ACTUALLY. & gt; & gt; HE REALLY DOES. AND THERE'S THIS INTERESTING THING THAT HAPPENS WITH THE INTERVIEWER AS IT'S HAPPENING. HE'S CONSTANTLY SAYING, EXPLAIN IT TO ME. EXPLAIN IT TO US. EXPLAIN IT TO ME. AND I AND I FEEL LIKE WE'VE ACTUALLY HEARD A LOT OF THAT IN RECENTLY CERTAINLY AFTER THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD. IT'S ONE OF THESE THINGS WHERE YOU, I'VE HEARD BLACK PEOPLE SAY WE'RE EXHAUSTED BY HAVING TO EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU. WHY HAVEN'T YOU NOTICED? WHY HAVEN'T YOU SEEN THIS? AND IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S WHAT JAMES BALDWIN WAS SAYING IN 1968. PROF. GLAUDE: IT'S FRUSTRATING, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE'S A KIND OF WILLFUL IGNORANCE. OH, MY GOD, IS THIS AMERICA? WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT? AND IT'S OVER AND OVER AGAIN. IT'S THIS DEMAND THAT WE GIVE A ACCOUNT OF THE WORLD AS IT IS TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING AND FEELING IN THIS MOMENT. & gt; & gt; THERE IS THIS LINE. I MEAN, THERE'S SO MANY REMARKABLE LINES IN IT. BUT I WROTE THIS DOWN BECAUSE IT'S INTERESTING. HE SAYS, THIS IS BALDWIN, HE SAYS, I HAVE TO ASK YOU A VERY IMPERTINENT QUESTION. AND THEN HE SAYS, HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU POSSIBLY BEGIN TO CATEGORIZE THE PEOPLE OF A COMMUNITY WHOM YOU DO NOT KNOW AT ALL? NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE RAGE THAT YOU TALK ABOUT BEGINS TO SIMMER TO THE TOP OF IT. PROF. GLAUDE: WHAT BOTHERED HIM IS, YOU KNOW, THE DESCRIPTION OF THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE IN THE STREETS AS LOOTERS, RIGHT? THE KIND OF DEMAND TO CONDEMN, YOU KNOW, THE VIOLENCE, RIGHT? AND BALDWIN IS TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEWER TO SEE WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH THIS HAPPENS. THE PEOPLE WHO STEAL THE TV AREN'T INTERESTED IN THE TELEVISION. AND YOU FIND YOURSELF, EVEN IF YOU'RE NOT INVESTED IN THAT, RIGH EVEN THOUGH YOU'RE NOT COMMITTED TO THAT KIND OF ACT, YOU FIND YOURSELF HAVING TO DEFEND IT, BUT WHAT'S FRAMING THIS AS WELL IN THE VERY BEGINNING IS HIS ANGER BECAUSE FEBRUARY OF 1968, THE KERNER COMMISSION REPORT H BEEN PUBLISHED. AND THE COMMISSION REPORT LAYS OUT WHY CITIES BUR AND THEN HE SAYS THEY IGNORED IT. THEY IGNORED IT, AND HERE YOU ARE ASKING ME THIS QUESTIO HERE YOU ARE DESCRIBING THES PEOPLE IN THIS WAY, WHEN YOU KNOW WHY THEY'RE DOING THIS. & gt; & gt; HOW FRUSTRATING I IIT THAT HE WAS SAYING THESE THINGS ABOU LOOTERS IN 1968 AND NOW WE FAS FORWARD TO 2020. AND WE HAVE TO SCREENSHOT TH PART OF THE INTERVIEW AND PUT IT UP TO STILL EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT THE CONTEXT OF THAT, ESSENTIALLY BECAUSE WHITE PEOPLE ARE STILL ASKING THAT QUESTION. PROF. GLAUDE: ALWAYS. ALWAYS. YOU KNOW, AND IT'S THE QUESTION THAT IS ASKED TODAY, I THINK IT'S ALMOST LIKE A LITMUS TES TO DETERMINE, ARE YOU A BAD ONE OR A GOOD ONE? SO, THE LOOTING, YOU HAVE TO DECRY THE VIOLENCE. THEY INVOKE MARTIN LUTHER KING JUNIOR IN THIS MOMENT. AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT TALKING ABOUT LOOTING AND VIOLENCE SHIFTS THE ATTENTIO AWAY FROM WHAT CAUSED IT ALL. AND THAT IS A KNEE IN THE NECK FOR EIGHT MINUTES AND FORTY SIX SECONDS. & gt; & gt; IN 1968, THE EDITORS OF ESQUIRE WERE ASKING JAMES BALDWIN HOW TO COOL, HOW DO YOU COOL IT, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU COOL IT FOR BLACK PEOPLE? AND NOW WE LOOK AT THAT, PROBABLY THAT PHRASING AND WE KIND OF GO, OH, THAT'S NOT HOW I WOULD ASK THAT QUESTION, IF I WOULD EVEN ASK IT AT ALL. AND YET YOU GO YOU LOOK AT CABLE NEWS, YOU SEE THESE THINGS, AND THEY'RE BASICALLY SAYING THAT THAT VERY SAME THING. THEY'RE JUST NOT USING IT IN THE KIND OF HIP 60S WAY THAT THE ESQUIRE EDITOR DID. PROF. GLAUDE: WELL, THEY USE IT IN THIS LANGUAGE. WELL, DON'T YOU FIND THAT THIS SORT OF BEHAVIOR IS ANTITHETICAL TO YOUR ENDS? THAT THIS IS NOT, THIS IS GOING TO UNDERMINE WHAT YOU WHAT YOU'RE WHAT YOU'RE SEEKING, THE END OF THE DAY, BECAUSE BALDWIN IN THE ESQUIRE INTERVIEW, IS TRYING TO TO INSIST THAT ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS EMANATE FROM A DEEP-SEATED FEAR, RIGHT? THAT THE EXPLOSION IN THES CITIES ACTUALLY REFLECT A FEAR THAT GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE FOUNDING OF THE COUNTRY. YOU CAN FIND IT IN JEFFERSON -- THOMAS JEFFERSON'S NOTES ON THE STATUS STATE OF VIRGINIA. THAT THESE ENSLAVED PEOPLE, THAT GIVEN WHAT WE'RE DOING TO THEM, EITHER GOD'S GOING TO PUNISH US FOR IT OR THEY ARE GOING TO. THEY'VE GOT TO BE THINKING ABOUT REVENGE IN SOME WAY. & gt; & gt; AS WE READ THIS INTERVIEW AND THEN YOU AND I HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, I THINK, WEL SURELY I'M, I'M COMING FROM A DIFFERENT PLACE THAN THESE GUYS ARE COMING THERE. BUT I CAN'T HELP BUT THINK THAT I STILL FALL INTO SOME OF THE TRAPS OR PITFALLS THAT THESE EDITORS DI PROF. GLAUDE: WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT BALDWIN IS TRYING TO DO IN THIS INTERVIEW, WHICH IS SO IMPORTANT, IS TO GET THE, TO GET THE EDITORS TO SEE THAT THE PROBLEM IS NOT U TO FLIP IT. YOU KNOW, WE WERE BORN INTO A WORLD THAT'S ORGANIZED IN SUCH A WAY THAT VALUES WHITE PEOPLE IN A CERTAIN WAY AND DEVALU OTHERS. AND ALONG THAT VALUATION IS THE DISTRIBUTION OF ADVANTAGE AND DISADVANTAGE. RIGH AND SO WHAT HE'S SAYING, "I'VE NEVER BEEN THE N-WORD. I NEVER THOUGHT OF MYSELF AS THE N-WORD. YOU CREATED IT WHY DID YOU NEED IT? ASK YOURSELF THAT QUESTION. IT'S NOT MY LAZINES IT'S NOT MY INABILITY TO SAVE MONEY, IT'S NOT ME, IT'S YOU. THE ONLY THING I HAVE TO DO IS TRY TO SURVIVE IT." & gt; & gt; IF YOU WERE GOING TO RECREATE, TRY TO RECREATE THIS INTERVIEW, THIS THIS STYLE OF INTERVIEW TODAY, WHY WOULDN'T WE HAVE YOU BE INTERVIEWING A WHITE PERSON SAYING THE SAME, ASKING THESE SAME QUESTIONS, BASICALLY SAYING TO WHITE PEOPLE, "HEY, WHITE FOLKS, CAN YOU PLEASE COOL IT?" I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S KIND OF WHAT THE THE TAKEAWAY IS HERE. PROF. GLAUDE: WELL, IN THAT INTERVIEW WITH BALDWIN WANTS TO SAY IS THAT THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL OF THIS RESTS AT THE FEET OF THE NATION, RESTS AT THE FEET OF THOSE WHO ARE COMMITTED TO THE IDEA THAT BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN, YOU WANT A SPECIAL KIND OF TREATMENT. IN THIS MOMENT WHERE WE, THAT WE FIND OURSELVES. IT'S A MORAL RECKONING AGAIN. ¿DERECHO? AGAIN, WHERE WE HAVE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, WHO DO WE TAKE OURSELVES TO B SOLEDAD: WE'RE GLAD YOU JOINED US FOR THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT RACIAL BIAS. WE HOPE YOU HEARD SOMEHING THAT MADE YOU THINK. OR INSPIRED YOU. OR GAVE YOU TOOLS TO HAVE MORE MEANINGFUL AND INFORMED CONVERSATIONS ABOUT RACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE TO QUOTE JAMES BALDWIN, NOT EVERYTHING THAT IS FACED CAN BE CHANGED. BUT NOTHING CAN BE CHANGED UNTIL IT IS FACED. THROUGHOUT THE SHOW, YOU'VE BEEN SENDING US QUESTIONS. WE'VE BEEN LISTENING. TO HELP ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS WE ASKED DR. MAZHARIN BANAJI TO JOIN US. SHE'S AT THE STUDIO IN BOSTON. NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN. WE BEGIN WITH OUR FIRST QUESTION FROM ELAINE. PERHAPS THESE EXPERTS CAN ADDRESS COLOR IS HIM, VYAS FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR THAT ARE MORE LIGHT-SKINNED, ESPECIALLY WHEN THAT RACISM IS HELD BY SOMEONE IN POWER. TALK TO US ABOUT COLOR IS HIM. DR. BANAJI: HUMAN BEINGS LOOK AT THE WORLD IN THE SIMPLEST POSSIBLE WAYS. WE LATCH ON TO LITTLE THINGS. YOU REMEMBER THE STAR TREK SHOW WHERE THERE WAS A GROUP THAT HAD LIGHT-SKINNED ON ONE SIDE AND DARK SKIN ON THE OTHERS. SO WE PICK UP ON TINY LITTLE DIFFERENCES AMONGST US AND WE MAGNIFY THEM AND MAKE THEM INTO THINGS THAT WE CAN USE TO DISCRIMINATE. COLOR IS ONE OF THEM. WE DID A STUDY ALONG TIME AGO IN WHICH WE TRIED TO SELL BASEBALL CARDS ON EBAY AND ALL WE WOULD SHOW IS A DARK SKINNED HAND OR A LIGHT-SKINNED HAND HOLDING THE CARD. WHAT WOULD YOU PAY FOR THIS CARD? WE SAW IN THE DATA THAT PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO PAY MORE MONEY FOR THE SAME CARD IF IT IS HELD BY A WHITE HAND. SO COLORIS FIRST OF ALL EXISTS. BUT COLORISM ISN'T NECESSARILY SPECIAL. IT COULD BE ANYTHING IT COULD BE FEATURES. IT COULD BE A PERSON'S ACCENT. BUT COLORISM IS SPECIAL BECAUSE IT IS EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD. IN THE UNITED STATES, WE TALK ABOUT BLACK AND WHITE. NOW I'M HEARING THE WORD BROWN THROWN INTO IT, BUT THAT WASN'T TRUE WHEN I FIRST CAME TO THIS COUNTRY. I GREW UP IN INDIA, WHERE A FRIEND OF MINE WHO HAPPENED TO HAVE A SISTER, AND TO MY EYES, THEY LOOKED IDENTICAL IN THEIR SKIN COLOR. I WOULD SIT IN FRONT OF THEM AND LOOK FROM ONE TO THE OTHER AND TO ME THEY WERE IDENTICAL. AND THEY WOULD SAY, OF COURSE WE ARE NOT. SO-AND-SO IS SO MUCH LATER THAN I AM. THEY WOULD SAY THAT BECAUSE THE LIGHTER SKINNED GIRL WAS GOING TO REQUIRE A LOWER DOWRY TO BE PAID BY HER FATHER WHEN SHE GOT MARRIED. TINY DIFFERENCES IN COLOR GET ASSOCIATED TO DIFFERENT OUT OF MONEY THAT WILL BE PAID FOR HER WHEN SHE GETS MARRIED. THIS IS STILL TRUE. IN CULTURES LIKE INDIA AND BRAZIL, I THINK YOU SEE THESE PREJUDICES EVEN MORE. SOLEDAD: THE NEXT QUESTION IS FROM SHIRLEY. THIS IS SOMETHING PEOPLE GET STUCK ON. I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO DECONSTRUCT IT. SHE SAYS, WHY CAN'T BLACK PEOPLE BE RACIST? BECAUSE OF THE RELATIONSHIP TO POWER, RIGHT? CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT? DR. BANAJI: I THINK ROBIN DIANGELO SAID IT REALLY WELL WHEN SHE SAID IT IS ABOUT THE POWER, STUPID. I AGREE WITH THAT. BUT AS A SCIENTIST, I'M GOING TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT HOW WHEN WE USE THE WORD RACISM, WE MUST DEFINE IT. TO US, RACISM EQUALS EXPLICIT PREJUDICE. IF A PERSON IS WILLING TO SAY, I DISLIKE PEOPLE OR I WILL NEVER LET MY DAUGHTER MARRY SOMEONE FROM THAT GROUP, TO US, THOSE ARE EXAMPLES OF EXPLICIT BIAS AND WE WOULD SAY IT WOULD BE OK TO CALL PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT RACIST. THE LIKELIHOOD THAT BLACK PEOPLE WILL SAY THINGS LIKE THAT IS VERY LOW. BUT LET'S GO AWAY FROM WHAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID AND LET ME POSE THIS TO YOU. BLACK PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED IN THE SELLING OF BLACK PEOPLE INTO SLAVERY. WHAT DO YOU CALL THEM? THERE ARE BLACK DOCTORS AND WHITE DOCTORS WHO TREAT PATIENTS. THERE ARE DIFFERENCES IN THE WAY WHITE AND BLACK PEOPLE ARE TREATED IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. MANY STUDIES SHOW THAT BLACK DOCTORS' BEHAVIOR IS BIASED IN THE SAME WAY AS A WHITE DOCTOR'S BEHAVIOR. WE ARGUE THAT IS BECAUSE BLACK DOCTORS CARRY THE THUMBPRINT OF THE CULTURE ON THEIR BRAIN. THE LOWER WORTH OF A BLACK LIFE HAS GOTTEN INTO THE HEAD OF BLACK DOCTORS. THEY MIGHT BE SOMEWH PROTECTED BECAUSE OF SIMILARITY AND SO ON, BUT NOT ENTIRELY. SO WE SHOULD BE CAREFUL NEVER TO SAY BLACK PEOPLE ARE JUST AS RACIST AS WHITE PEOPLE, NOR TO SAY A BLACK PERSON COULD NEVER BE RACIST. WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO CALL A BLACK POLICE OFFICER WHO ACTS TOWARDS BLACK AMERICANS IN A WAY SIMILAR TO A WHITE POLICE OFFICER? WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THAT? SOLEDAD: QUESTION NUMBER THREE IS FROM CJ. WHAT DO WE SAY TO WHITE CULTURED BLACK PEOPLE? I THINK CJ MEANS BLACK PEOPLE WHO GREW UP IN WHITE COMMUNITIES, WHO THINK AND TALK AS IF THEY ARE WHITE WITH WHITE PRIVILEGE. DR. BANAJI: IT IS A DEEP QUESTION. IT CAN'T BE EASY TO BE THAT PERSON EITHER. WHEN YOU LIVE IN A CULTURE WHERE THE DIFFERENTIALS BETWEEN GROUPS ARE SO EVIDENT, I CAN IMAGINE PEOPLE FEELING LIKE IF THEY COULD JUST GET INTO THAT SYSTEM, THEY ARE GOING TO BE PROTECTED. I DO AT SOME LEVEL UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO BECOME ACCULTURATED. ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT ARE WE IN THIS WORLD TO DO AND WHAT ARE WE HERE TO DO FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE OUR PEOPLE AND WHO HAPPENED TO BE DISADVANTAGED -- I'VE OFTEN THOUGHT THAT THERE ARE SO MANY IDENTITIES ANY ONE OF US HAS. I HAVE THE IDENTITY OF BEING A PERSON FROM THE INDIAN SUBCONTINENT. I ALSO HAVE THE IDENTITY OF BEING A PROFESSOR AT HARVARD. BEING A WOMAN IN SCIENCE. I HAVE TRIED TO THINK ABOUT THESE DIFFERENT IDENTITIES OF MINE AND SEPARATE THE PRIVILEGED ONES FROM THE LESS PRIVILEGED ONES. MY IDENTITY AS A HARVARD PROFESSOR GIVES ME TONS OF PRIVILEGES. I DON'T WORK ON THAT. I DON'T THINK ABOUT THAT ONE AS MUCH AS I THINK ABOUT MY IDENTITY AS A WOMAN IN SCIENCE. THAT IS A FRAGILE IDENTITY. THAT CAN BE TAKEN AWAY BECAUSE THE WORLD DOESN'T BELIEVE PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE ME CAN SCIENTISTS. WHILE I UNDERSTAND THE DESIRE TO WANT TO PASS AND GET INTO A GROUP THAT HAS HIGHER STATUS, I THINK THAT WHEN YOU LEARN ABOUT THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, THE HISTORY OF A PEOPLE, AND IF EDUCATION WORKS AS IT IS MEANT TO, I THINK PEOPLE WILL UNDERSTAND, WHEN YOU DO BELONG TO A PARTICULAR GROUP, TO SEE DISADVANTAGE, AND TO KNOW THAT THAT IS CALLING FOR YOU, WHICH SIDE ARE YOU GOING TO BE ON? OUR PREVIOUS SPEAKERS, WHEN THEY SPOKE ABOUT WHERE DOES RESPONSIBILITY LIVE, IT LIES THE FEET OF THE NATION -- I WOULD SAY THE FEET OF ALL OF US. SOLEDAD: QUESTION NUMBER FOUR COMES FROM ROBERT. WHY IS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHITE PRIVILEGE AND CLASS PRIVILEGE NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED EXCEPT WHEN IT IS CONVENIENT TO THE SPECIFIC ARGUMENT? DR. BANAJI FROM A SCIENTIFIC POINT OF VIEW, I WOULD SAY THAT WE KNOW SO LITTLE ABOUT THESE FORMS OF PRIVILEGE. WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT WHEN THEY INTERSECT, SOMETHING INTERESTING GOES ON. I'VE OFTEN WONDERED ABOUT THIS. WE KNOW THAT CLASS PRIVILEGE, ONCE ACHIEVED, LET'S SAY AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHO HAVE RISEN TO POWER, WHO HAVE WEALTH, WHO HAVE EDUCATION, WHO LIVE IN NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THERE ARE FEW OTHER BLACK INDIVIDUALS, AND SO ON -- I HAVE ALWAYS ASSUMED THAT ONCE YOU MAKE THA SWITCH, ONCE YOU MOVED INTO THAT HIGHER ECHELON OF SOCIETY, THAT NOW ALL OF THE GENERAL PRIVILEGE WILL ACCRUE TO THEM. WHEN I TALK TO MY BLACK COLLEAGUES, THAT IS NOT THE STORY I HEAR, WHICH TELLS ME THERE IS SOME KIND OF BLACK EXCEPTIONALISM HERE, THAT MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE BLACK MEN WHO WEAR THREE-PIECE SUITS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GET A CAB IN NEW YORK CITY, OR MY COLLEAGUE WHO WAS TRYING TO ENTER HIS OWN HOME IN CAMBRIDGE AND WAS STOPPED FROM DOING SO. PRIVILEGES SOMEHOW GOT STRIPPED AWAY BECAUSE RACE DOMINATED. ALL I WILL SAY HERE IS THAT THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT STRANDS OF PRIVILEGE, PRIVILEGE THAT COMES TO MEN FROM BEING TALLER THAN OTHER MEN FOR EXAMPLE. THE PRIVILEGE OF HAVING A BRITISH ACCENT, BIG PRIVILEGE. I SAY TO PEOPLE, SHOULD WE DO PHONE INTERVIEWS BECAUSE FACE-TO-FACE INTERVIEWS CAN HAVE BIAS, AND I SAY, IF YOU DO PHONE INTERVIEWS, YOU WILL ONLY HI BRITISH PEOPLE. HUMANS WILL USE ANYTHING TO DISTINGUISH PEOPLE ALONG A DIMENSION OF WORTHY AND LESS WORTHY. I WOULD SIMPLY SAY, JUST KNOW THAT EVEN IF PEOPLE WHO ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN BREAKTHROUGH AND ENTER PRIVILEGES OF CERTAIN KINDS, IT IS N CLEAR THAT THEY ARE RECEIVING THE BENEFITS OF THOSE PRIVILEGES. SOLEDAD: THE FIFTH QUESTION COMES FROM DESIREE. CHILDREN A NOT BORN RACIST, BUT THEY BECOME RACIST AND HAVE BIASES WHAT INFLUENCES THEIR BEHAVIOR TOWARD OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON'T LOOK OR SPEAK OR DRESS LIKE THEM? DR. BANAJI: THIS IS A FABULOUS QUESTION AND I BECAME INTERESTED IN IT MANY YEARS AGO NOW. I WILL SAY T DESIREE, WHO ASKED THAT QUESTION, YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED AS TO HOW EARLY CHILDREN DO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD AND BECOME BIASED. WHEN WE BEGAN THIS WORK, WE HAD DESIREE'S VIEW. CHILDREN ARE BORN WITHOUT BIAS, AND THEY ARE. THEY HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED THE WORLD ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DARK AND LIGHT-SKINNED AND SHOW ON. BUT YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT WHEN AN INFANT IS EVEN THREE MONTHS OLD, IT BEGINS TO SHOW PREFERENCES FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE ITS OWN FAMILY. IF YOU ARE BORN INTO FAMILIES WITH LIGHT-SKINNED PEOPLE AROUND YOU, BABIES WILL GO TO OTHER LIGHT-SKINNED PEOPLE RATHER THAN DARK SKINNED. IF THE REVERSE IS TRUE, THE REVERSE WILL HAPPEN. THERE IS A LOVELY STUDY DONE ON ETHIOPIAN JEWS WHO MOVED TO ISRAEL, SHOWING THAT ETHIOPIAN JEWS IN ISRAEL WHO HAD CAREGIVERS OF BOTH KINDS SHOWED NO BIAS, BECAUSE THEIR WINDOW OF EXPERIENCE HAD BEEN EXPANDED TO INCLUDE THE ENTIRE RANGE. IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE, I'VE GOT TO SAY, THE ROOTS OF PREJUDICE ARE BECAUSE BABIES KNOW THAT WHEN SOMETHING IS FAMILIAR, IT WILL NOT HARM YOU. WHY DO NAVIES LIKE WOMEN'S VOICES AND FACES MORE THAN MEN? IT HAPPENS, BUT ONLY IF WOMEN ARE THEIR PRIMARY CAREGIVERS. DON'T ASSUME THAT THESE BABIES ARE JUST PASSIVELY SITTING AROUND, WAITING TO ROW UP IN ORDER TO ACQUIRE IMPLICIT BIAS AND EXPLICIT BIAS. THEY ARE SPONGES, AND THEY ARE SOAKING EVERYTHING IN, AND THIS FATHER'S PARENTS,HO SAY TO ME, I NEVER TAUGHT THEM -- THIS BOTHER PARENTS, WHO SAY TO ME, I NEVER TAUGHT THEM THAT. A LAWYER TOLD ME SHE HAD HER SON WERE WALKING THROUGH GRAND CENTRAL STATION, AND HE PICKED A PIECE OF GUM OFF THE WALL AND STUCK IT IN HIS MOUTH. SHE SAID, DON'T DO THAT, THAT GUM WAS IN SOMEBODY ELSE'S MOUTH. AND HE SAID YEAH, IT COULD HAVE BEEN IN A BLACK PERSON'S MOUTH. SHE WAS AGHAST. THIS WAS A LIBERAL LAWYER WHO WORKED AT THE POVERTY LAW CENTER AND SHE SAID, HOW COULD THIS BE IN OUR HOUSE? NOT A WORD IS SET. IT IN SCHOOL, NOT A WORD IS SAID. HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN? I WANT DESIREE AND EVERYBODY TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY INFLUENCE ON YOUR CHILD. IT IS MANY OF THE THINGS, SOLEDAD, THAT YOU SHOWED US OVER THE LAST HALF-HOUR, HOW CULTURE IMPINGES ON US. AND WE ARE LEARNERS. HUMANS LEARN. WE LEARN PATTERNS OF THINGS. AND WE KNOW IN NEW YORK CITY, WHO ARE THE PEOPLE THAT SIT AT THE NEWSPAPER STANCE. THEY LOOK SIMILAR TO EACH OTHER. AND WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO OWN GROCERY STORES? AND WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE WITH WEAK CASES WALKING INTO TALL BUILDINGS? I THINK A BABY LEARNS THIS. SO WHILE THEY ARE NOT BORN KNOWING THAT X IS GOOD AND Y IS BAD, JUST KNOW THAT THEY LEARN FROM OTHER PEOPLE. SOLEDA DR., THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS. A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL THE GUESTS WHO JOINED US FOR THIS LISTENING TO HER. I WANT TO NOTE THE ENCORE PRESENTATION OF THIS SHOWWILL BE AVAILABLE AT MATTEROFFACT.TV BEGINNING AT 11:00. IF YOU HAVE SUGGESTIONS FOR FUTURE PROGRAMS, PLEASE SEND YOUR IDEAS TO THE MATTER-OF-FACT FACEBOOK PAGE. I WANT TO ISSUE A SPECIAL INVITATION FOR YOU TO JOIN ME EVERY WEEKEND ON "MATTER OF FACT WHERE WE ALWAYS HAVE CONVERSATIONS AS DIVERSE AS AMERICA. CATCH UP WITH US ON MATTEROFFACT.TV. I'M SOLEDAD O'BRIEN AND FOR ALL OF US ON THE LISTENING TOUR, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. ♪ [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY. VISIT NCICAP.ORG] RACE. >> A BLACK MAN, YOU KNOW THE RULES. >> I WAS WORRIED ABOUT THAT INTERACTION. SOLEDAD: IS THERE ANOTHER VOICE? IS THERE A WAY TO OPEN UP THE CONVERSATION? >> REAL CONDITIONS OF WHAT IT’S LIKE TO BE BLACK IN AMERICA. SOLEDAD: I DON’T NEED PEOPLE TO BE SMOOTH, I NEED TO PUSH THEM TO BE AUTHENTIC. >> IT IS A MORAL ISSUE. >> THE MORE BLACK THEY LOOK, THE MORE DEATH WHERE THEY THEY WERE. >> ARE WE JUST WIRED TO BE BIASED? ♪ SOLEDAD: I’M SOLEDAD O’BRIEN. WELCOME TO THE "MATTER OF FACT LISTENING TOUR." THANKS FOR GIVING US YOUR VALUABLE TIM YOU KNOW JUST AS WELL AS I DO, THAT OUR COUNTRY IS STRUGGLING WHO ARE WE AND WHAT WILL HISTORY SAY ABOUT OUR RESPONSE TO THE LIFE-CHANGING EVENTS OF 2020? WILL IT SAY WE ADDRESSED THE ISSUES OF RACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE WITH HONESTY AND OPENNESS? WILL IT SAY WE EMBRACED THE CALL FOR HUMAN DIGNITY, AND LOOKED AT PEOPLE WITH COMPASSION, EMPATH OR AT THE VERY LEAST, TOLERANCE? AT "MATTER OF FACT," WE DON’T SHY AWAY FROM DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS. WE MAKE A POINT OF HAVING THEM. AND THIS LISTENING TOUR SERIES WILL BE NO DIFFERENT. HERE WE WILL HAVE REAL AND TOUGH CONVERSATIONS ABOUT RACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE ISSUES, BEGINNING WITH BIA WE ARE GOING TO THE ROOT OF THE CHALLENGE WE FACE, UNCOVERING THE HIDDEN PREJUDICE THAT SHAPES WHAT WE SEE, THINK AND DO. BUT LET’S START AT THE BEGINNING. MEET DR. JENNIFER EBERHARDT, AUTHOR OF THE BOOK, "BIASED. >> THIS IS A STORY ABOUT, I WAS ON AN AIRPLANE WITH MY SON WHEN HE WAS ABOUT FIVE YEARS OLD AND MY SON WAS JUST REALLY EXCITED ABOUT BEING ON THIS AIRPLANE WITH MOMMY HE’S LIKE LOOKING ALL AROUND AND HE’S CHECKING EVERYBODY OUT. AND HE SEES THIS MAN AND HE SAYS, HEY, THAT GUY LOOKS LIKE DADDY. AND SO I LOOK AT THE MAN AND HE DOESN’T LOOK ANYTHING AT ALL LIKE MY HUSBAND, LIKE NOTHING AT ALL. RIGHT. SO I START TO LOOK AROUND ON THE PLANE AND I REALIZED THAT THIS MAN WAS THE ONLY BLACK MAN ON THE PLANE. AND I THOUGHT, ALL RIGHT. RIGHT. I’M GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A LITTLE TALK WITH MY SON ABOUT HOW NOT ALL BLACK PEOPLE LOOK ALIKE. SO I’M GETTING READY TO HAVE THE TALK. BUT THEN I PAUSE BECAUSE I REALIZED CHILDREN SEE THE WORLD IN A DIFFERENT WAY FROM ADULTS, RIGHT? THEY HAVEN’T BEEN CONDITIONED YEAR AFTER YEAR TO SEE, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE IN CERTAIN WAYS. AND SO I THOUGHT MAYBE HE SAW SOME RESEMBLANCE THERE THAT I DIDN’T, RIGHT? AND SO I DECIDED BEFOR LECTURING MY SON THAT I WAS GOING TO LOOK AT THIS MAN AND I’M LOOKING FOR ANY RESEMBLANCE TO MY HUSBAND. SO I LOOK AT HIS HEIGHT AND HIS WEIGHT AND HIS FACIAL FEATURES YOU KNOW, SKIN COLOR, EVERYTHING, NO RESEMBLANCE. I LOOK AT HIS HAIR. AND THIS MAN HAD LONG DREADLOCKS FLOWING DOWN HIS BACK AND MY HUSBAND SHAVES HIS HEAD, RIGHT? SO, I’M LOOKING AT MY SON, I’M LIKE, YOU’RE GOING TO GET THE TALK, RIGHT? SOME I’M ALL READY TO LECTURE HIM. BUT BEFORE I COULD SAY ANYTHING, MY SON, HE LOOKS UP AT ME. HE SAYS, "I HOPE THAT MAN DOESN’T ROB THE PLANE. AND I SAID, "WHAT? WHAT DID YOU SAY?" AND HE SAID IT AGAIN, HE SAYS, "WELL, I HOPE HE DOESN’T ROB THE PLANE." AND I SAID, "WELL, YOU KNOW, DADDY WOULDN’T ROB A PLANE." AND HE SAID, "YEAH, YEAH, I KNOW." AND I SAID, "WELL WHY WOULD YOU SAY THAT?" AND HE LOOKED AT ME WITH THIS REALLY SAD FACE AND HE SAID, "I DON’T KNOW WHY I SAID THAT. I DON’T KNOW WHY I WAS THINKING THAT." THAT ASSOCIATION BETWEEN BLACKNESS AND CRIME MADE ITS WAY INTO THE MIND OF MY FIVE-YEAR-OLD AND IT MAKES ITS WAY INTO ALL OF OUR MINDS. SOLEDAD: THROUGHOUT THIS HOUR, WE ASK YOU TO DO A FEW THINGS. LISTEN. EVEN WHEN THE TALK TURNS UNCOMFORTABLE. TAKE IN THE OPINIONS OF OTHERS. AIM FOR A BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF THE VIEWPOINTS OF OTHERS. SEND US YOUR COMMENTS OR QUESTION WE’LL TACKLE THEM AT THE END OF THE SHOW, WITH THE HELP OF ONE OF OUR EXPERTS. IN CASE YOU’RE WONDERING WHAT’S COMING UP BETWEEN NOW AND THE END, A SOCIAL EXPERIENCE THAT WILL HELP US ALL SEE OUR BIAS, COMEDIAN TRAE CROWDER, KNOWN FOR HIS LIBERAL REDNECK MANIFESTO-- WITH HIS TAKE ON OUR TIMES. A LOOK AT STEREOTYPES THROUG OLD MOVIES AND IMAGES, AND A CONVERSATION WITH OSCAR WINNER JOHN RIDLEY. PLUS, RAPPER GENESIS BE ON HOW THE CONFEDERATE FLAG TURNED HER PERFORMANCE INTO PROTEST THERE’S . THERE’S A LOT PACKED INTO THIS HOUR. TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE ROLE BIAS PLAYS IN OUR EVERYDAY LIVES, WE INVITED SEVEN PEOPLE FROM AROUND THE COUNTRY TO PARTICIPATE IN A UNIQUE SOCIAL EXPERIENCE USING VIRAL VIDEOS THAT CAPTURED RACIAL BIAS ON CAMERA, WE ASKED THE PARTICIPANTS TO WATCH AND SHARE THEIR REACTIONS THROUGH A PRIVATE CHAT ROOM WHERE THEY COULD NOT SEE OR HEAR ONE ANOTHER. SIMULATING OUR COMMUNICATION ON SOCIAL MEDIA, THE PARTICIPANTS HAD TO EXPRESS THEIR FEELINGS THROUGH TEXT ALONE WITHOUT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT THE PERSON BEHIND THE COMMENTS. WHEN THE VIDEOS ENDED, THE JOINED A VIRTUAL VIDEO CALL WHERE THEY CONTINUED THEIR CONVERSATION FACE-TO-FACE. THIS IS WHAT HAPPENED. >> HI EVERYBODY, I KNOW YOU CAN’T SEE OR HEAR EACH OTHER, BUT CAN YOU HEAR ME? OKAY, WHENEVER YOU’RE READY YOU CAN ROLL THAT FIRST VIDEO PLEASE. AMY COOPER: WOULD YOU PLEASE STOP? SIR I’M ASKING YOU TO STOP. CHRISTIAN COOPER: PLEASE DON’T COME CLOSE TO ME. AMY COOPER: SIR I’M ASKING YOU TO STOP RECORDING ME. CHRISTIAN COOPER: PLEASE DON’T COME CLOSE TO ME. AMY COOPER: PLEASE TAKE YOUR PHONE OFF. CHRISTIAN COOPER: PLEASE DON’T COME CLOSE TO ME. PLEASE, PLEASE CALL THE COPS. PLEASE CALL THE COPS. AMY COOPER: I’M GOING TO TELL THEM THERE’S AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MAN THREATENING MY LIFE. CHRISTIAN COOPER: PLEASE TELL THEM WHATEVER YOU LIKE. AMY COOPER: EXCUSE M I’M SORRY, I’M IN THE RAMBLE. AND THERE’S A MAN, AFRICAN AMERICAN, HE HAS A BICYCLE HELMET, IS RECORDING ME AND THREATENING ME AND MY DOG. THERE IS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN MAN. I AM IN CENTRAL PARK. HE IS RECORDING ME A THREATENING MYSELF AND MY DOG. I WOULD LIKE -- I’M SORRY, I CAN’T HEAR YOU EITHER. I’M BEING THREATENED BY A MAN IN THE RAMBLE. PLEASE SEND THE COPS IMMEDIATELY. I’M IN CENTRAL PARK IN THE RAMBLE. I DON’T KNOW. CHRISTIAN COOPER: THANK YO MODERATOR: THANKS, EVERYONE. NOW WE’RE GOING TO PLAY THE OTHER VIDEO. >> RELAX BRO. WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? >> NO ONE IS IN THE WATER. RELAX. >> I’VE BEEN DOWN HERE MY WHOLE LIFE. I LIVE HERE. DON’T GET CLOSE TO ME. >> BACK IT UP. I AM BEING HARASSED BY A BUNCH OF BLACK MEN HERE. >> WOW. [LAUGHTER] >> GETAWAY. NO, YOU GET AWAY. WOW. IS THIS THE POLICE DEPARTMENT? OK. >> WOW. >> I HAVE PEOPLE TRYING TO PUT A BOAT IN THE WATER THAT IS ILLEGAL. I HAVE A BOAT DOWN HERE. I HAVE A LEGAL RIGHT TO PUT MY BOAT IN THE WATER. THEY DO NOT. >> WHAT IS YOUR NAME, SIR? WHAT IS YOUR NAM WE WEREN’T HERE TO PUT A BOAT IN THE WATER. WE ARE HANGING OUT. YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF THAT. >> THEY CAME DOWN HERE TO PUT A BOAT IN THE WATER, APPARENTLY. >> BUT HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT? >> HEY, EVERYONE. THE VIDEOS ARE OVER. NOW YOU’RE GOING TO MEET EACH OTHER. >> NICE TO MEET YOU ALL. >> HELLO. >> IT’S A PLEASURE. >> THAT WAS FUN, I DIDN’T EXPECT THIS. >> THIS IS WHAT I HOPED FOR AND EXPECTED, A DIVERSE GROUP. >> YOU KNOW, WE ALL SEE THESE VIDEOS AND WE’RE OUTRAGED BY THEM. OK. AND I DON’T THINK YOU HAVE TO BE BLACK TO BE OUTRAGED BY THE WOMAN IN THE PARK OR THAT GUY. >> THAT SITUATION HIT HOME FOR ME, BECAUSE I’VE BEEN IN MY OWN HOME AND HAD THE PERSON COME IN TO DELIVER OIL AND ASK ME FOR THE OWNER TO COME OUT AND SIGN IT. RIGHT? AND THEN WHEN HE REALIZED THAT I WAS THE OWNER, HE LOOKED AT THE HOUSE AND THOUGHT I DIDN’T REALLY BELONG. SO FOR ME, THE EXPERIENCE OF WATCHING THIS VIDEO, FOR ME, THAT IS TRIGGERING THE THE EXPERIENCES THAT I’VE HAD SINCE I’VE PROBABLY BEEN 18 YEARS OLD. >> BUT I THINK YOU’RE TOUCHING ON A REAL CORNERSTONE OF THE PROBLE EVERYTHING IN AMERICA TEACHES ALL OF US THAT FEAR OF A BLACK MAN IS REASONABL >> IT’S ABOUT CRIMINALIZING BEHAVIOR THAT IS NOT CRIMINAL. WE’VE GOT TO STOP LOOKING AT THINGS THAT ARE LEGAL FOR EVERYBODY ELSE AND SAYING, YOU KNOW WHAT? I JUST DON’T WANT THAT GROUP DOING THAT HER >> AND IT SEEMS LIKE WE HAVE THIS BEHAVIOR WHERE WE’RE WILLING TO BREAK THE RULES WHEN IT’S CONVENIENT FOR US. AND WHEN SOMEONE ASKS US TO FOLLOW THE RULES, THEN WE START TO GET ABRASIV >> IT’S NOT A WHITE THING, A BLACK THING. IT IS A HOW WE DEAL WITH IT AS AMERICANS, AS ONE PEOPLE IN THE MOST SUCCESSFUL DEMOCRACY ON EARTH. >> IT’S VERY HARD FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN DISENFRANCHISED SINC THE DAY THEY ARRIVED IN THIS COUNTRY, OR AT LEAST THEIR ANCESTORS ARRIVED IN THI COUNTRY, TO COME AT THIS IDEA OF BEING AMERICAN. AND UNTIL WE CAN SEE THAT IT IS A BLACK AND A WHITE THING WE CAN’T UNDO ANY SYSTEM. >> I’M NOT SAYING THAT WE SHOULDN’T TALK ABOUT THE RACIAL DISPARITIES BETWEEN BLACKS AND WHITES AND HISPANICS AND WHITES AND ASIANS AND EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE MIX. BUT I WOULD I WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT THE FUTURE SAYS THAT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THESE SUBJECTS >> SO WHEN I THINK ABOUT IT IS, I’M TIRED OF LIKE EDUCATING WHITE PEOPLE AT WORK, WHAT BOO TO READ, WHO TO TALK TO. WHEN I STARTED TO THINK ABOUT THOSE THINGS, I FIND IT CHALLENGING WHEN PEOPLE THAT DON’T LOOK LIKE ME SAY THAT I HAVE A RESPONSIBILITY TO CREAT SOCIETAL CHANGE WHEN REALLY ALL MY LIFE I’VE BEEN SERVING AND TRYING TO CREATE SOCIETAL CHANGE. >> BEING MORE ACTIVE IN TERMS OF RACE RELATIONS IS SOMETHING NEW FOR ME. BECAUSE BEFORE I HAD A CHILD, I DON’T KNOW, LIKE, I JUST ALWAY TRY TO GO HIGH WHEN THEY GO LOW. AND EVEN AS A BLACK PERSON, THERE ARE THINGS THAT I DIDN’T REALIZE, LIKE IN TERMS OF SYSTEMIC RACISM AND HOW A SUPREMACIST CULTURE HA MANIFEST. IT IS, IT IT GOES REALLY REALLY DEEP. >> BLACK PEOPLE CAN’T BE RACIST. SO I WANT TO GO AHEAD AND CAVEAT WITH THAT. AND I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF WHITE PEOPLE, MOST WHITE PEOPLE WILL EVEN ARGUE TO SAY, DO HAVE THIS IMPLICIT BIAS? SOME OF YOU SAID THAT YOU’RE 50 AND YOU’RE 57, THERE ARE PROBABLY MOMENTS WHERE YOU MIGHT REACT THE WAY THAT AMY COOPER DID WHEN CHRISTIAN COOPER ASKED HER TO PUT HER DOG ON THE LEASH. AND YOU DON’T THINK THAT YOU WOULD. RIGHT? BUT THAT’S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IMPLICIT AND EXPLICIT BIAS. >> I AM NOT -- I AM IN NO WAY RACIST. BUT I RECOGNIZE IN MYSELF THOSE MOMENTS WHEN I’M WALKING DOWN AN ALLEY AND TWO BLACK DUDES ARE COMING TOWARDS ME. AND I HAVE THAT MOMENT OF FEAR THAT SOMETHING INSIDE OF ME I WAS TAUGHT AND IT SHAMES ME TO FEEL IT. BUT YOU’RE RIGHT. YOU ARE 100% RIGHT. PARTICIPANT W, I WOULD I WOULD VOTE FOR YOU FOR OFFICE TODAY. WHERE I INHERENTLY AND WHOLEHEARTEDLY DISAGREE WITH IS THE IDEA THAT THAT BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT BE RACIST. IN SOUTHEAST GEORGIA, AS SOMEBODY WHO’S BEEN THE ONE WHITE GUY IN A CROWD OF BLAC MEN AND YOU HEAR, YOU KNOW WHAT, "F YOU HONKY, SCREW YOU, YOU FAT CRACKER." ALL PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BE RACISTS. THERE’S GONNA BE RACISM. HOW DO WE CHANGE THAT? WE START CHANGING THE DIALOG AND START ACCEPTING EVERYBODY FOR WHO THEY ARE. >> THE THE RACISM PART OF IT VERSUS BIAS IS THAT RACISM ACTUALLY IMPACTS THE LIFE OF THE INDIVIDUAL. SOMEONE CALLING YOU A NAME OR SOMEONE CALLING ME A NAME. THAT’S BIAS AND THAT’S FINE. ABSOLUTELY. LIKE, EVERYBODY IS GOING TO HAVE BIAS. >> UNDERSTOO >> WE SEE PEOPLE DIFFERENT WAYS. BUT SOMEBODY ACTUALLY HAVING THE MEANS OF WHICH TO CALL THE POLICE ON YOU AND HAVE YOU KILLED FOR SOMETHING MINOR? THAT IS RACISM. AND BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT IN THIS DAY AND AGE DO THAT TO WHITE PEOPLE. AND THAT’S WHY BLACK PEOPLE CAN’T BE RACIST IN AMERICA. THAT’S THE DIFFERENCE. >> YES. [LAUGHTER] >> YEAH, WE SHOULD DEFINITELY DO THIS AGAIN. >> YES. BYE Y’ALL. >> BYE. SOLEDAD: WE HAD HELP PUTTING THIS EXPERIENCE TOGETHER. WE RECRUITED HARVARD UNIVERSIT PROFESSOR MAZHARIN BANAJI. DR. BANAJI, WHAT A PLEASURE TO HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK TO YOU. LET’S BEGIN WITH THE SETUP OF THIS EXPERIMENT. WAS THERE SOMETHING THAT THAT STOOD OUT TO YOU SPECIFICALLY? >> WHAT WAS INTERESTING, AND I THINK THIS FITS WITH THE RESEARCH, IS THE DEEP SYMPATHY THAT THE WATCHERS HAD IN ALL THE WAYS IN WHICH YOU WOULD WANT GOOD PEOPLE TO HAVE. THEY FELT FOR THE PERSON WHO W BEING AGGRESSED AGAINST. THEY ALSO TRIED TO EXPLAIN WHY THE PERSON WHO DID THE BAD BEHAVIOR MIGHT HAVE DONE WHAT THAT PERSON DID AND TO WATCH THIS GROUP TAKE THOSE AND TRY TO MAKE SENSE OF IT. WE ARE GIVING EXPLANATIO FOR PEOPLE’S BEHAVIOR ALL THE TIME. ONE OF THE PLACES WHERE YOU CAN SEE BIAS REVEAL ITSELF IS IN OUR CHOICE OF EXPLANATIONS. SOME OF THE PEOPLE IN THE STUDY SAID THINGS LIKE, WELL, I DON’T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED BEFORE. I DIDN’T KNOW WHAT WHAT HAPPENED AFTER. WE’RE ONLY SEEING A LITTLE PIECE. AND I WOULD SAY TO THAT, THAT’S LIFE. IN THE TEXT EXCHANGE, YOU COULD SEE A DIVIDE. THERE WERE SOME PEOPLE WHO FELT THAT THERE WERE THESE INDIVIDUAL BAD ACTORS AND THEN OTHERS WHO FELT THAT THERE WAS A SOCIETY THAT WAS REALLY REFLECTING IN THEIR INDIVIDUAL ACTIONS. >> SINCE THE 1960S, THERE HAS BEEN RESEARCH MOUNTING THAT SHOWS THAT WE ARE MUCH MORE ALIKE, THAT THAT PUT IN THE SAME SITUATIONS, MOST OF US WOULD BEHAVE IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. SO WE CANNOT RULE OUT AND I’M GOING TO BE VERY BLUNT ABOUT THIS, WE CANNOT RULE OUT BEING AMY COOPER OURSELVES SOLEDAD: AMY COOPER APOLOGIZED PROFUSELY. WHAT DID YOU READ INTO THEIR APOLOGIES? THAT AGAIN IS SUCH A FUNDAMENTAL PIECE OF HUMAN NATURE. THERE ARE OTHER SIDES TO THE SAME HUMAN BEING. IT’S NOT THAT ONE IS THE GOOD ONE AND THIS IS THE BAD ONE, BUT RATHER THAT THERE ARE IN O MINDS, IN THE SAME HUMAN MIND , BOTH OF THESE. AND THAT’S WHAT IS SO INTERESTIN SOLEDAD: DR. MAHZARIN BANAJI, WHAT A PLEASURE TO CHAT WITH YOU. THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR YOUR TIME. >> THANK YOU SOLEDAD: DR. BANAJI WILL BE WITH ME AT THE END OF THE SHOW TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTIONS. SO, KEEP THEM COMING. YOU HEARD DR. BANAJI TALK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF BIAS ON OUR COMMUNITIES. FOR PEOPLE DIRECTLY AFFECTED BY ACTS OF IMPLICIT OR EXPLICIT BIAS, THE IMPACT CAN BE DEVASTATING. WE SPOKE TO THREE PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED THIS KIND OF TRAUMA. WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE IS WHAT HAPPENED AND WE CAUTION YOU THAT SOME OF THE LANGUAGE IS OFFENSIVE. >> WHEN YOU COME IN AS A FOREIGNER AND YOU DON’T EVEN SPEAK THE LANGUAGE, YOU’RE NOT SEEN AS PART OF YOUR COMMUNITY. MOST COUNTRIES, THEY ALL SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE AND THEY ALL LOOK THE SAME, BUT IN AMERICA, YOU HAVE TO FEEL LIKE YOU BELONG. >> I’VE EXISTED IN SPACES WHERE MY OTHER PRIVILEGES HAVE KEPT ME SAFE. I’M ACADEMIC AND SOME FINANCIAL PRIVILEGE THAT HAS BOLSTERED MY EXPERIENCE AS AN AFRICAN AMERICAN WOMAN. THERE’S A LOT TO UNPACK AS FAR AS HOW WE AS A COUNTRY ACKNOWLEDGE THAT RACISM STILL EXISTS AND THAT IT’S A PROBLEM WORTH FIXING. >> SO, I’M A HUSBAND, A FATHER OF THREE BEAUTIFUL GIRLS. AS SOON SHE CALLED US THE N-WORD, IN MY MIND, I’M THINKING TO MYSELF, I LITERALLY SEEING AM SOMETHING THAT I’VE BEEN STUDYING MY WHOLE LIFE. >> WHAT YOU CALL M SAY IT AGAIN. >> I DON’T REALLY HAVE TOO MANY AVENUES TO TAKE TO RECEIVE SOME TYPE OF FAIRNESS OR TO CALL SOMEBODY OVER AND THINK THEY’LL ACTUALLY HELP ME OUT SO MY EQUALIZER IN THAT INSTANCE WAS MY PHONE >> I WAS WALKING TO MY PARTNER’S APARTMENT FROM GRAND CENTRAL STATION. I HAD ON A BLACK LIVES MATTER SHIRT, I STILL DON’T KNOW IF THAT CONTRIBUTED TO THE INCIDENT AT ALL. >> OBAMA’S -- RIGHT NEXT TO HIS APE WIFE. [EXPLETIVE] APES. >> WHEN MOST SEE THAT TWO MINUTE VIDEO WHAT THEY DO IS THEY PLACE THEMSELVES IN MY SHOES, BUT FROM THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCE. >> HI, I"M ASKING YOU IF THIS IS YOUR PROPERTY. >> WHY ARE YOU ASKING? >> BECAUSE IT’S PRIVATE PROPERTY. BECAUSE IT’S PRIVATE PROPERTY, SIR. >> SO, ARE YOU DEFACING PRIVATE PROPERTY OR IS THIS YOUR BUILDING? >> YOU’RE FREE TO EXPRESS YOUR OPINIONS. >> NO, YOU. SO IF I DID LIVE HERE AND THIS WAS MY PROPERTY THIS WOULD BE ABSOLUTELY FINE. AND YOU DON’T KNOW IF I LIVE HERE >> ACTUALLY, I DO. WE ACTUALLY DO KNOW, THAT’S WHY WE’RE ASKING. >> OH, REALLY BECAUSE YOU LIVE HERE, RIGHT. >> NO BECAUSE WE KNOW THE PERSON WHO DOES LIVE HERE. >> SO, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE SAYING, WELL IF YOU HAD JUST ANSWERED HER QUESTION, AND SAID YES I LIVE HERE THAT WOULD’ BEEN FINE AND SHE WOULD’VE WALKED AWAY, THOSE PEOPLE ARE SPEAKING MOSTLY FROM WHITE PRIVILEGE. >> THIS WASN’T JUST SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED TO A GUY WHO HAD A BLUE-COLLAR OR A WHITE-COLLAR JOB, THIS HAPPENED TO SOMEONE WHOSE ACTUAL LIFE MISSION UP TO THE WIND WAS ALREADY FOCUSED ON USING BLACK HISTORY TO HELP KIDS, ESPECIALLY KIDS THAT LOOK LIKE HIM. >> THE WORD THAT SHE USED THAT STOOD OUT TO ME MORE THAN ANYTHING WAS THE WORD APE. I’D NEVER GOTTEN THAT BEFORE. I HAVE CERTAINLY BEEN CALLED THE N-WORD BEFORE IN MY PAST, BUT I’VE NEVER BEEN COMPARED TO AN ANIMAL LIKE THAT. >> YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ANSWER PEOPLE WHEN THEY PRESUME TO HAVE AUTHORITY OR POWER OVER YO YOU DON’T HAVE TO GIVE THAT UP, YOU DON’T HAVE TO GIVE IT AWAY. WE’RE A BETTER COUNTRY BECAUSE OF OUR DIFFERENCES AND BECAUSE OF OUR VARIETY, BECAUSE OF ALL THE BEAUTIFUL DIFFERENT THINGS WE BRING TO THE TABLE THAT WE’RE NOT ALL THE SAME. >> THE MESSAGE I WOULD HAVE FOR AMERICA RIGHT NOW IS TO TRULY UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN YOU SEE HATE CRIME, YOU ARE BEING -- SEEING SOMETHING THAT IS TRIVIAL IN RELATION TO THE RACISM WE DEAL WITH ON A REGULAR BASIS. IT’S NOT TRIVIAL IN ITSELF, BUT IT’S THE ICEBERG AND YOU CAN’T SEE THE WHOLE GLACIER UNLESS YOU LOOK UNDER THE WATER. >> WE HAVE TO GET TO THE POINT WHERE ACCUSING SOMEONE OF A CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT OF YOUR SKIN COLOR IS HORRIFIC, IS UNACCEPTABLE, IS UN-AMERICA SOLEDAD: ANY OF US ARE CALLED OUT FOR BEING BIASED, IT STINGS. IF YOU ARE WHITE, YOU WILL LIKELY FEEL DEFENSIVE. OUR NEXT GUEST IS SAYING THAT IS A FEELING YOU NEED TO TAKE HEAD-ON. MEET DR. ROBIN DIANGELO. AUTHOR OF THE LOOK "WHITE FRAGILITY." ROBIN D’ANGELO, SO NICE TO HAVE YOU. YOU TALK A LOT ABOUT BEING WHITE AND POOR AND AND THAT GIVES YOU AN INTERESTING INSIGHT ON A CONVERSATION THAT’S A LOT ABOUT PRIVILEGE. >> FROM A VERY EARLY AGE, I WAS ACUTELY AWARE OF THE SHAME OF POVERT THAT LIFE WAS NOT FAIR SWIM AGAINST THE CURRENT, YOU ARE QUITE AWARE THERE IS A CURRENT. BUT WHEN YOU SWIM WITH IT, YOU DON’T NOTICE IT. WHILE I HAD SPENT YEARS INKING ABOUT THE INJUSTICES AND -- THINKING ABOUT THE INJUSTICES AND PAIN OF POVERTY, I HAD NEVER CONSIDERED HOW I BENEFITED FROM SOMEBODY ELSE’S OPPRESSION. IN FACT, HOW BEING WHITE HELPED ME NAVIGATE POVERTY AND HELPED ME GET OUT OF POVERTY. SOLEDAD: OFTEN PEOPLE THINK OF RACISM OR BIAS AS LIKE THIS ONE INDIVIDUAL DOING JUST A MEAN, UNKIND THING TO OTHER PEOPLE LIKE THAT PERSON OVER THERE, THEY ARE A RACIST. >> IT IS ABOUT POWER. IT IS ABOUT ONE GROUP’S COLLECTIVE BIAS. WE ALL HAVE BIAS. BUT WHEN OUR GROUP’S COLLECTIVE BIAS IS BACKED WITH LEGAL AUTHORITY AND INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL, THAT TRANSFORMS IT INTO SYSTEMIC RACIS SOLEDAD: I’M CURIOUS ABOUT IF IT IS ULTIMATELY ABOUT POWER, DOES THAT MEAN THAT BLACK PEOPLE CAN’T BE RACIST? >> I WOULD SAY NO. BLACK PEOPLE CANNOT BE RACIST. THEY CAN BE BIASED. ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE HAS BIAS. SO YOU CAN BE JUST AS BIASED TOWARDS ME AS I CAN BE TOWAR YOU. BUT WHEN YOU BACK MY GROUP’S BIAS WITH THAT KIND OF POWER, IT HAS TRANSFORMED THE IMPACT OF THAT BIA SO WE HAVE TO RESERVE LANGUAGE TO CAPTURE THAT OR OTHERWISE WE TRIVIALIZE THE PROFUNDITY THAT DIFFERENCE IN IMPACT. SOLEDAD: SO THEN, WHAT ARE THE OPPORTUNITIES FOR CHANGE ARE YOU OPTIMISTIC? AND WHAT DO PEOPLE DO IF THEY’RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO NAVIGATE THEIR OWN BIAS AND SYSTEMIC RACISM? IF IT’S A SYSTEM, IT SEEMS LIKE AN INDIVIDUAL MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO ACT UPON IT VERY STRONGLY. >> I’M GOING TO SPEAK TO WHITE PEOPLE RIGHT NOW CONSIDER REMOVING THE CLAIM "I’M NOT RACIST" FROM YOUR VOCABULARY. IT’S FUNCTIONALLY MEANINGLESS. IT’S NOT CONVINCING TO ANYONE WHO UNDERSTANDS SYSTEMIC RACISM. IT JUST TELLS YOU THAT THIS PERSON HAS NO IDEA AND LIKELY WILL NOT BE OPEN IT ENDS UP, EVEN THOUGH I THINK I’M TELLING YOU, THAT I’M NOT , I’M REALLY PUTTING UP A WALL THAT SAYS YOU’RE PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO GIVE ME FEEDBACK OR CHALLENGE ME OR HELP ME SEE AN UNAWARE ASSUMPTION THAT I WAS MAKIN AND SO EVEN THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SYSTEMIC RACISM IS A HUGE BREAKTHROUGH IN OUR ABILITY TO MOVE FORWARD. THAT GIVES ME HOPE. BUT I THINK IT SHOULD BE VERY CLEAR IN THIS POLITICAL MOMENT. WE CAN NEVER, EVER BE COMPLACENT OR THINK WE’RE POST-RACIAL OR THINK THAT EVERYTHING’S DONE AND EVERYTHING’S SE SOLEDAD: ROBIN D’ANGELO, SO NICE TO TALK TO YOU, ROBIN. THANK YOU. >> YOU’RE SO WELCOME. SOLEDAD: ASK YOURSELF A QUESTION. DO YOU THINK WE LIVE IN A POST-RACIAL WORLD? IF SO, IT WOULD MEAN THAT THERE ARE NO MORE STEREOTYPES, THAT WE DON’T MAKE GENERALIZATIONS ABO A PARTICULAR GROUP, AND HAVE CERTAIN EXPECTATIONS ABOUT EVERY PERSON IN THAT GROUP. MATTER OF FACT CORRESPONDENT JOIE CHEN SET OUT TO EXPLORE THE CREATION OF STEREOTYPES WITH A LOOK AT FILMS AND IMAGES OF THE PAST. AND HOW THEY INFLUENCE US TODA >> I USED TO HEAR THE PLAYGROUND TAUNTS, CHING CHONG CHINAMAN, CHINESE JAPANESE DIRTY KNEES, AND WONDER WHERE KIDS LEARNED THIS STUFF. THE STEREOTYPES. RACIST TROPES. TURNS OUT THE IMAGES THAT SHAPE OUR BIASES ARE EVERYWHERE. >> THE IMAGE IMPRINTING BEGINS EARLY. THESE IMAGES ARE IN CHILDREN’S STORIES AND BOOKS AND THEY’RE IN THE ANIMATION AND THAT THEY ARE IN OUR FILMS AND OUR ADVERTISEMENTS AS WELL. REPORTER: PROFESSOR MIA MASK STUDIES HOW AFRICAN AMERICANS ARE REPRESENTED IN MOVIES, T AND POP CULTURE, AND HER WORDS STICK WITH ME AS I WATCH "DUMBO" NOW, DECADES AFTER I FIRST SAW "JIM CROW" AND HIS GANG: "DID . DID YOU EVER SEE AN ELEPHANT FLY? >> I’VE SEEN A HORSE FLY. REPORTER: OR THE "IN-JUNS" IN "PETER PAN. OR OR SHAN DONG, THE BUCK-TOOTHED CHOPSTICK WIELDING PIANO PLAYER IN "THE ARISTOCATS". IT’S EMBARRASSING TO THINK THIS WAS EVER ENTERTAINING. HAPPY. SUBSERVIENT. UNCLE REMUS SINGS A "SONG OF THE SOUTH" LOADED WITH STEREOTYPES-- SO OFFENSIVE, DISNEY WON’T EVEN STREAM IT. OR THE CARICATURES OF ENSLAVED PEOPLE AT "GONE WITH THE WIND"’S TARA. >> MR. RHETT, I DONE TOLD YA AN’ TOLE YA, IT JUST AIN’T FITTING FOR A GIRL CHILD TO RIDE A WHERE -- REPORTER: WHERE HATTIE MC MAKE DANIEL’S CHARACTER BECAME THE NAME OF A RACIST TROPE THE , "MAMMY". IT TURNS OUT A LOT OF THOSE PHONIES WERE NOT VERY FUNNY, LIKE HOLLY’S NEIGHBOR MR. YUNIYOSHI IN BREAKFAST A TIFFANY’S. OR THE VERY FIRST TV SITCOM TO STAR AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN WOMAN "BEULAH". ,>> WHO SPENDS MOST OF HER TIME IN THE KITCHEN BUT NEVER SEEMS TO KNOW WHAT’S COOKING. REPORTER WHY DID AUDIENCES EMBRACE THESE DEMEANING DEPICTIONS? I ASKED MEDIA AND CULTURAL STUDIES SCHOLAR ALFRED MARTIN. >> STEREOTYPES ARE NOT JUST ABOUT SAYING, HEY ISN’T THIS FUNNY? THEY ARE GENERALLY ALWAYS ABOUT KEEPING THE STATUS QUO IN PLACE. REPORTER SO IT HAS BECOME PART OF OUR CONSCIOUSNESS AND OUR SUBCONSCIOUSNESS. WE ACCEPT THE IDEAS OF BLACKS AS LAZY, ASIANS AS UNTRUSTWORTHY, LATINOS AS A AS SHADY, AS SHIFTY . THIS HAS SEEPED INTO OUR CONSCIOUSNESS AND INFORMS HOW WE VIEW PEOPLE IN THE EVERYDAY WORLD AND IN OUR EVERYDAY EXISTENC IN OUR COLLECTIVE SUBCONSCIOUS IMAGES YOU’VE MAY HAVE OVERLOOKED IN ADVERTISING, ONLY NOW ARE SOME OF THE MOST DEHUMANIZING CHARACTERIZATIONS OF AFRICAN AMERICANS FINALLY BEING YANKED OFF STORE SHELVES . THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO WOULD SAY, LOOK, IT IS JUST PANCAKE SYRUP. >> IT COULD BE JUST PANCAKE SYRUP. IF WE DIDN’T BELIEVE IN THE INFERIORITY OF CERTAIN GROUPS, AND THE SUPERIORITY OF OTHER REPORTER: CASE IN POINT, "BIRTH OF A NATON" REQUIRED VIEWING IN ALMOST ANY COLLEGE FILM CLAS IT DOESN’T JUST GLORIFY THE KLAN, IT PORTRAYS AFRICAN AMERICAN MEN AS VOLATILE BOOKS -- BUCKS, SAVAGE IS TO BE FEARED. >> WE CAN SEE THE WAY IT DRAWS ON PARTICULAR KINDS OF STEREOTYPES OF BLACKNESS THAT SAY, LISTEN, LIKE, IF WE ABOLISH SLAVERY, LIKE THESE BLACK FOLKS ARE GOING TO DO ALL SORTS OF TERRIBLE THINGS. SO THE BLACK MEN ARE GOING TO RAPE AND PILLAGE WHITE WOMEN I WE ALLOW THEM TO BE IN POSITIONS OF LEGISLATIVE AUTHORITY, THEY ARE GOING TO DISRESPECT THE KIND OF TRADITION THAT WE HAVE. REPORTER: DEPICTIONS THAT CAN IMPACT THE FUTURE AS WELL. >> IT SEEPS OUT FROM BEYOND THE POPULAR CULTURE. SO POLICE OFFICERS WHO CAME OF AGE IN THE 1990’S AND EARLY 2000’S LEARNED FROM THOSE FILMS THAT BLACK MEN ARE TO BE CONTAINED. THAT BLACK MEN ARE A THREAT, THAT THEY THREATEN WHITE NEIGHBORHOODS, WHITE WOMEN, WHITE COMMUNITY. REPORTER: SCHOLARS SAY THE FIX ISN’T TO JUST PULL OFFENSIVE MATERIAL OFF THE SCREEN, BUT TO GIVE AUDIENCES CONTEXT FOR OLD IMAGES AND TO GIVE DIVERSE VOICES, LIKE THE PRODUCERS WHO BROUGHT "BLACK PANTHER" TO LIFE. >> WHO ARE YOU? REPORTER: NEW OPPORTUNITIES TO SHAPE OUR VISION. I’M JOIE CHEN FOR THE LISTENING TOUR. SOLEDAD: OUR WORLD IS IMPACTED BY THE STORIES THAT WE TELL AT HOME, IN THE CLASSROOM, AND ON THE SCREEN. AND THE STORIES THAT WE SHARE EVERY DAY CHANGE OUR CULTURE. >> HELLO, MY NAME IS JOSE LUIS RIOS I AM THE DIRECTOR OF PHOTOGRAPHY AT THE "SAN ANTONIO EXPRESS-NEWS." I AM A STAUNCH ADVOCATE OF FAIR AND RESPONSIBLE DOCUMENTARY PHOTOGRAPHY. I AM AN EXTENSION OF BOTH MY FATHER AND MY MOTHER MY FATHER WAS A MEXICAN IMMIGRANT WHO HAD AN INCREDIBLE WORK ETHIC. MY MOTHER, FROM HER, I GET HER SENSE OF EMPATHY FOR THE UNDERPRIVILEGE SOLEDAD: FOR INSIGHT INTO HOW STORIES ARE SHAPED AND THE RESPONSIBILITIES INVOLVED IN CONCEIVING AND PORTRAYING IMAGES IN FILM AND TELEVISION, WE TUR TO JOHN RIDLEY. A WRITER-DIRECTOR WHOSE FILM AND TV PROJECTS ARE ABOUT RACIAL CONFLICT. HE WON AN OSCAR FOR HIS SCREEN ADAPTATION OF "12 YEARS A SLAVE." WE WANTED TO HEAR FROM HIM ABOUT THE RESPONSIBILITY HE FEELS AS A CREATOR OF THE NARRATIVES AND IMAGES FOR THIS TIME. HERE’S CORRESPONDENT JESSIC GOMEZ. REPORTER: >> THIS IS OUR PERFORMANCE SPACE. JESSICA: WE MET FILMMAKER JOHN RIDLEY AT HIS ARTS ORGANIZATION IN HIS HOMETOWN OF MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN. >> IF YOU LOOK TO THE EAST, YOU SEE REVITALIZATION, YOU SEE BUILDINGS, YOU SEE PEOPLE WH ARE PROBABLY IN PRETTY GOOD SHAPE FINANCIALLY, AND IF YO LOOK JUST ACROSS THE FREEWAY, THERE ARE FOLKS WHO ARE STRUGGLING EVERY DAY. JESSICA: THE STUDIO, CREATING A CONNECTION BETWEEN DIFFERENT WORLDS. LIKE MUCH OF RIDLEY’S WORK. >> WE ARE HERE TO SUPPORT ARTISTS, ALL KINDS OF ARTISTS FROM ALL DIFFERENT BACKGROUNDS BUT CERTAINLY ARTISTS FROM TRADITIONALLY DISENFRANCHISED BACKGROUNDS. JESSICA: RIDLEY WHO WON AN OSCAR FOR BEST SCREENPLAY FOR "12 YEARS A SLAVE"AND CREATED ABC’S "AMERICAN CRIME" IS KNOWN FOR CONFRONTING THE ISSUES OF RACE AND REPRESENTATION HEAD-ON. >> I REALLY DO LIKE TO USE THE WORD REPRESENTATION OR BEING REFLECTIVE OF THE WORLD WE LIVE IN. JESSICA: WHERE ARE WE IN TERMS OF RACE AND REPRESENTATION IN HOLLYWOOD IN YOUR MIND? JOHN: WELL, I THINK WE’RE IN A BETTER POSITION THAN WE ARRIVED THERE IN THE EARLY 90S BUT THERE’S A LONG WAY TO GO STILL. IN HOLLYWOOD, FOLKS REALLY REPRESENT THEMSELVES AS VERY LIBERAL AND PROGRESSIVE AND WE LOVE TO GET IN FRONT OF PEOPLE AND PROSELYTIZE ABOUT PROGRESSIVE ISSUES. BUT WE DON’T DO A GOOD JOB IN OUR OWN BACKYARD, IN OUR OWN OFFICES, ON OUR OWN SETS WHEN YOU GO INTO THE MEETINGS, WHO ARE THE PEOPLE AT THE STUDIO THE NETWORKS AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL WHO HAVE FINAL AUTHORITY ON WHAT KIND OF STORIES ARE BEING CHOSEN, ON WHAT KIND OF INDIVIDUALS ARE BEING HIRED? JESSICA: RIDLEY CHOOSING STORIES THAT SPAN GENRES. HIS BATMAN COMIC BOOK SERIES, IN WHICH BATMAN IS BLACK, SET TO BE RELEASED SOON. AS IS HIS GRAPHIC NOVEL, "THE OTHER HISTORY OF THE DC UNIVERSE RIDLEY, THOUGH, HOPING FANS ARE MORE INTERESTED IN THE CHARACTERS THAN THEIR COLOR. >> IT REALLY IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK ABOUT THE STORIES THAT HAVE BEEN, IN COMIC BOOKS, THAT HAVE BEEN IMPACTFUL TO ME AND OTHER READERS, OVER YEARS AN DECADES BUT LOOK AT IT FROM A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT LENS, THE LENS OF HEROES OF COLOR, OF FEMALE CHARACTERS, OF CHARACTERS FROM THE LBGT COMMUNITY. AND LIKE ANY OTHER HISTORY, HOW DO WE SEE EVENTS THAT WE A ENDURE TOGETHER, BUT HOW DO WE SEE THEM A LITTLE DIFFERENTLY? JESSIC AS HISTORY UNFOLDS TODAY, RIDLEY SAYS HEARING FROM ALL PERSPECTIVES, NO MATTER HOW TOUGH, IS NOW MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER. >> IF YOU’RE DOING STORY ABOUT RACE RELATIONS, IF YOU’RE DOING STORIES ABOUT SOCIO ECONOM ISSUES, THEY ARE NOT HAPPY STORIES, THEY ARE GENERALL TOUGH STORIES. BUT AT THE SAME TIME, FILM AND TELEVISION IS A GREAT PLACE CONFRONT ISSUES OR DELVE MORE DEEPLY. IF WE’RE NOT MAKING AN EFFORT TO PUT THESE STORIES IN FRONT OF PEOPLE, THEN I DON’T KNOW WHO IS. >> YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT WHERE YOU ARE AND ASK YOURSELF, IS THERE MORE THAT YOU CAN DO? JESSICA: JESSICA: RIDLEY, DOING MORE IN HIS HOMETOWN FOR THE NEXT GENERATION OF STORYTELLERS. WHAT DO YOU TELL YOUNG FILMMAKERS ABOUT REPRESENTATION AND BIAS? >> THERE’S NOT A LOT YOU CAN DO ABOUT THE BIAS YOU’LL FACE BUT THE ONE THING YOU CAN DO IS BE REALLY AWARE OF WHAT’S GOING ON IN YOUR WAKE AND ARE YOU DOING EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO MAKE SUR THAT FOLKS IN THE WRITER’S ROOM AND FOLKS ON THE SET, THAT THEY DON’T LOOK EXACTLY LIKE YO AND I KNOW FROM EXPERIENCE THAT THE STORIES WE HAVE TOLD ARE BETTER BECAUSE OF THAT. JESSICA: I’M JESSICA GOMEZ FOR THE LISTENING TOUR. SOLEDAD: THE NARRATIVES IN MOVIES AND TV SHOWS INFLUENCE THE WAY WE SEE THE WORLD. THE NARRATIVES DELIVERED IN OUR NEWS HAVE EVEN GREATER IMPACT. THEY FRAME OUR CIVIC DISCUSSIONS. WE ASKED DOROTHY TUCKER, A VETERAN JOURNALIST AT WBBM IN CHICAGO AND THE PRESIDENT OF THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLACK JOURNALISTS TO REFLECT ON WHY THE NARRATIVES REFLECTED IN THE WORDS AND PICTURES WE SEE MATTER. >> WHEN BLACK JOGGER AHMAUD ARBERY WAS SHOT TO DEATH IN SUBURBAN ATLANTA BY TWO WHITE MEN, I RECEIVED A PHONE CALL FROM ONE OF OUR MEMBERS. A YOUNG JOURNALIST. HE SOUNDED WEARY. "WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING", HE SAID. "BROTHERS ARE HURTING." IT WASN’T THE LAST CALL THAT I WOULD RECEIVE. THE DEATH OF YET ANOTHER BLACK PERSON HAD A PROFOUND IMPACT ON BLACK JOURNALISTS. FAR TOO MANY SAW THEMSELVES IN EVERY INNOCENT BLACK FACE OF A JOGGER, DRIVER, OR SOMEO SITTING IN THEIR CAR, SLEEPING IN THEIR BED OR MARCHING F JUSTICE. IT’S A FEAR THAT GOES DEEP BECAUSE IT’S NOT BASED ON AN ACTION OR REACTION. WE ARE TARGETED BECAUSE OF T COLOR OF OUR SKIN. STILL, IT IS OUR JOB TO COVER THE STORIES, TO BE FAIR AN BALANCED DESPITE OUR PAIN, O FEARS AND ANGER. BECAUSE SPEAKING OUT SOMETIMES GETS US IN TROUBLE. PITTSBURGH REPORTER ALEXIS JOHNSON EXPRESSED HER FRUSTRATION THROUGH A TWEET AND GOT SIDELINED. HERE’S WHAT SHE DID. SHE COMPARED PHOTOS FROM THE AFTERMATH OF A PROTEST WHICH WAS DESCRIBED AS "SELFISH LOOTING" TO SIMILAR LOOKING PICTURES OF THE DAMAGE AFTER A COUNTRY WESTERN CONCER JOHNSON’S TWEET CALLED INTO QUESTION THE UNFAIR PORTRAYAL HOW THE MEDIA COVERED AN EVENT ATTENDED BY MOSTLY BLACK PEOPLE VERSUS HOW IT COVERED A PREDOMINATELY WHITE EVENT. JOHNSON WAS PULLED FROM COVERING FUTURE PROTESTS. BIAS IS ALIVE AND WELL IN TH NEWS INDUSTRY. CONSIDER THE STORY AT MLIVE.COM IN FLINT, MICHIGAN. THREE BLACK MEN WERE RUNNING FOR POLITICAL OFFICE. THEY ALL HAD PRIOR BRUSHES WIT THE LAW, AND ALL HAD MUGSHOTS. FOR TWO OF THE MEN, THE PAPER CHOSE TO RUN THE MUGSHOTS INSTEAD OF THEIR CAMPAIGN PHOTOS. THE COMMUNITY WAS OUTRAGED. THE NEWS MANAGERS EVENTUAL APOLOGIZED. THE USE OF MUGSHOTS BY THE MEDIA HAS PLAYED A MAJOR ROLE IN CONTRIBUTING TO THE AMERICA’S UNJUST NEGATIVE STEREOTYPES ABOUT BLACKS. OFTEN TIMES THESE DISPARAGING IMAGES OR OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE WE SEE IN THE MEDIA ARE THE RESULTS OF MANAGERS WHO BRING THEIR UNCONSCIOUS BIAS TO THE JOBS. AN EAST COAST MEMBER RECENTLY RECOUNTED AN INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED A FEW YEARS AGO BUT FELT LITTLE HAD CHANGED. SHE WROTE, "I HAVE ON MANY OCCASIONS HAD TO REFRAME ASSIGNMENTS WHEN I’VE BEEN GIVE THE BLACK STORY. IN ONE EXAMPLE, I WAS ASSIGNED TO REPORT ON THE BILL COSBY VERDICT WHEN IT CAME DOWN. THE STORY’S THESIS WAS ALREADY WRITTEN IN MY EDITOR’S HEAD. I HAD TO EXPLAIN TO HIM THAT WOULD NOT WRITE HIS THEORY, A THEORY THAT SAID BLACK PEOPLE ACCEPTED COSBY DESPITE THE VERDICT." SHE EXPLAINED TO HER EDITOR, BLACK PEOPLE ARE NOT MONOLITHIC. NABJ AND ITS LOCAL CHAPTERS HAVE RELEASED TOO MANY STATEMENTS EXPRESSING OUR ANGER, FRUSTRATION, OR DISAPPOINTMENT OVER BIAS COVERAGE. AND WHEN WE REACH OUT TO THE NEWS MANAGERS TO DISCUSS THE INCIDENT, WE FIND A COMMON THREAD. FEW IF ANY BLACK MANAGERS IN THE NEWSROOM. WE NEED MORE BLACK MANAGERS DECISION-MAKING POSITIONS. BLACK MANAGERS WHO CAN ENGAGE THEIR WHITE COLLEAGUES IN HONEST CONVERSATIONS ABOUT RACE AND CULTURE. BLACK MANAGERS WHO CAN CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF NEWS COVERAGE, NOT ONLY BY THEIR LIFE EXPERIENCES BUT BY THEIR HIG JOURNALISTIC ETHICS. TOGETHER, THIS IS OUR CHANCE TO CHANGE THE DIALOGUE AND IN TURN HONESTLY REPORT THE NEWS. SOLEDAD: EVERY JOURNALIST FACES THE SAME CHALLENGE. HOW DO WE BRING WHAT WE KNOW AND HAVE EXPERIENCED TO THE STORIE WE TELL? AND REMAIN FAIR IN OUR COVERAGE OF EVENTS. >> I’M MARIA HINOJOSA. I’M THE ANCHOR AND EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF "LATINO USA." I’M THE CO-ANCHOR OF THE POLITICAL PODCAST "IN TH THICK," AND I’M THE FOUNDER OF FUTURO MEDIA. SO THIS STORY THAT I’M GOING TO TELL YOU ABOUT BIAS IN THE MEDIA. I WAS THE FIRST LATINA CORRESPONDENT AT NPR AND ACTUALLY FOUGHT TO DO THIS STORY BECAUSE THERE WAS A REALLY BAD HEROIN THAT WAS MAKING ITS WAY ONTO THE STREETS OF THE SOUTH BRONX. AND I SAW A VERY FAMOUS NPR PERSONALITY. AND THIS PERSON SAID TO ME, "O MY GOD, I HEARD YOUR REPORTING ABOUT THE SOUTH BRONX. OH, MY GOD, WEREN’T YOU TERRIFIED THE FIRST DAY THAT YOU HAD TO SET FOOT THERE?" AND I SAID, "WELL, ACTUALLY, N I’M NOT AFRAID OF THOSE COMMUNITIES, I KNOW THOSE COMMUNITIES, I HANG OUT IN THOSE COMMUNITIES. I’VE LIVED IN THOSE COMMUNITIES. THEY DON’T SCARE ME. AND SO DON’T ASSUME AND TRY YOUR BEST AS A JOURNALIST TO BE OPEN TO UNDERSTANDING THAT THERE ARE MULTIPLE WAYS OF SEEING THE STORY. SOLEDAD: THE WORK OF JOURNALISTS INTENSIFIES DURING TIMES OF UNREST AND PROTEST. THE DECISIONS WE MAKE ABOUT HOW TO DESCRIBE WHAT’S HAPPENING, ARE CRITICAL TO AUDIENCES KNOWING THE TRUTH. THE LANGUAGE WE USE CAN DEFINE THE ISSUES OR PLAY INTO PREJUDICE. JOINING US TO DISCUSS THE CHALLENGES ARE A JOURNALIST ARRESTED WHILE COVERING PROTEST IN FERGUSON AND AN ACTIVIST WHO HELPED CREATE THE BLACK LIVES MATTER MOVEMENT. WES LOWERY, SO NICE TO SEE YOU. TAKE US BACK TO FERGUSON IN 2014. YOU WERE THERE TO COVER THE PROTESTS AROUND THE KILLING OF MICHAEL BROWN. WES: I ARRIVED IN FERGUSON AUGUST 11, 2014, SO THAT’S TWO DAYS AFTER MICHAEL BROWN’S DEATH. THE PROTESTS ARE STARTING TO REALLY PICK UP IN INTENSITY AND ENERGY. AND THE POLICE RESPONSE WAS REALLY PICKING UP IN INTENSITY MYSELF AND ANOTHER REPORTER ENDED UP OURSELVES BEING ARRESTED THEY CAME INTO WHERE WE WERE WORKING, TOLD US WE HAD TO LEAVE AND THEN GOT FRUSTRATED AND THEY SAID WE WEREN’T PACKING UP QUICKLY ENOUGH AND DECIDED, WELL, SCREW IT, WE’RE GOING TO ARREST THEM. YOU KNOW, THERE HAD BEEN DOZENS, IF NOT HUNDREDS OF RESIDENTS WHO HAD BEEN ARRESTED UNDER EQUALL SUSPECT SCENARIOS. AND YET HERE THIS MOMENT WHERE MEMBERS OF THE MEDIA WAS BEING ARRESTED WAS SOMETHING THAT I THINK FOR A LOT OF THE COUNTRY SAID, WELL, IF THEY’LL TREAT THESE REPORTERS THIS WAY, HOW MIGHT THEY BE TREATING THESE RESIDENTS EVERY DAY? HOW ARE THEY TREATING PEOPLE WHEN THE CAMERAS AREN’T THERE? AND I THINK THAT THAT IS PARTICULARLY DIFFICULT FOR A L OF PEOPLE TO SEE THAT FOR SO LONG, THESE POLICE NARRATIVES HAVE BEEN TAKEN, AS YOU KNOW, WORD OF GOD ALMOST, RIGHT? WELL, THEY SAID HE, HE SHOULDN’T HAVE BEEN RESISTING IF HE DIDN’T WANT TO DO X, Y. AND THEN WE WATCHED THESE VIDEOS AND WE SEE SUDDENLY THAT PERHAPS THAT’S NOT WHAT HAPPENED. SOLEDAD: ALICIA GARZA, SO NICE TO HAVE YOU. IT’S BEEN SEVEN YEARS SINCE T FOUNDING OF BLACK LIVES MATTER HOW HAVE YOU FELT MEDIA OVERALL COVERING THE BLACK LIVES MATTER PROTESTS, WHICH HAPPEN ACROSS THE COUNTRY, AND I THINK SOMETIMES THE FOUNDERS OF BLACK LIVES MATTER ARE THERE AND SOMETIMES YOU’RE NOT THERE. ALICIA: I THINK WHERE WE’VE HAD THE MOST CHALLENGES IS REALLY GETTING MEDIA TO LOCK IN ON WH WE’VE ESTABLISHED AS THE VALUES OF NOT JUST THIS ORGANIZATION, BUT THIS MOVEMENT OVERALL. IT DOES BECOME A CHALLENGE WHEN EVERYTHING RELATED TO BLACK PEOPLE STARTS TO GET NAMED BLACK LIVES MATTER. ALL KINDS OF THINGS GET ATTACHED TO OUR MOVEMENT THAT AREN’T NECESSARILY RELATED. AND THAT’S NOT A GOOD THING OR A BAD THING. IT’S JUST A THING THAT IS, RIGHT? I CAN SAY WHEN BLACK LIVES MATTER FIRST KIND OF CAME ON THE SCENE, WE WEREN’T BEING COVERED BY MEDIA IN THE SAME KIND OF WAY. I WOULD SAY THAT OVER THE LAST SEVEN YEARS WE’VE SEEN SOME IMPROVEMENT, BUT SO MUCH OF HOW WE GET COVERED MAINLY HAS TO DO WITH WHEN THERE’S PROPERTY DESTRUCTION OR WHEN THERE’S SOMETHING SENSATIONAL ABOUT A PROTEST. SO, THERE’S STILL TONS OF WORK LEFT TO DO IN TERMS OF MAKING SURE THAT THE EVERYDAY PERSON WHO TUNES IN TO A NEWS SHOW OR TURNS ON THE NEWS AND IS SEEING PROTESTS DEEPLY UNDERSTANDS, WHAT IS THIS ABOUT, WHO IS INVOLVED? WHY ARE THEY OUT HERE AND WHY SHOULD I CARE ABOUT THIS? WES: I DO THINK IT’S OUR JOB TO CONTEXTUALIZE. AND I THINK THAT OFTEN WE DON’T DO THE BEST JOB AT THIS. AND I THINK THAT THE BEST EXCUSE FOR THAT IS THAT THE NEWS MOVES QUICKLY AND IT’S DIFFICULT. UNFORTUNATELY, WE KNOW THERE’S GOING TO BE ANOTHER POLICE SHOOTING, THERE’S GOING TO BE ANOTHER ROUND OF PROTESTS, THERE MIGHT BE ANOTHER ROUND OF RIOTING. AND SO, ON THESE ISSUES THAT WE COVER TIME AND TIME AGAIN, I DON’T THINK THERE’S MUCH EXCUSE FOR US NOT GETTING BETTER AT THE COVERAGE. AND I THINK THAT THAT’S ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES WITH SOME OF THE COVERAGE OF BLACK LIVES MATTER. SOLEDAD: CAN I ASK YOU ANOTHER QUESTION? YOU WRITE A LOT ABOUT OBJECTIVITY. WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO YOU? WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE OBJECTIVE AS A REPORTER? WES: I THINK THAT THE MISTAKE WE MAKE SOMETIMES IS WE SUGGEST THAT REPORTERS THEMSELVES AS INDIVIDUALS ARE NEVER GONNA HA ANY OPINIONS, RIGHT? AND WHAT THIS CREATES IS THIS GAME OF HIDE AND SEEK, CAPTURE THE FLAG. WHERE IF YOU CAN EVER PROVE TH A REPORTER HAS EVER HAD AN OPINION, HAS EVER BEEN FRIENDS WITH ANYONE WHO MIGHT HAVE AN OPINION, THAT SUDDENLY YOU CAN’T TRUST ANY OF THEIR REPORTING. AND WE SEE THIS VERY OFTEN WEAPONIZED AGAINST REPORTERS WHO MAY BE FROM A MINORITY GROUP, RIGH THAT SUDDENLY THEIR IDENTITY MIGHT PREVENT THEM FROM BEING ABLE TO BE FAIR. AND SO WHAT I THINK WE NEED TO FOCUS ON IN OUR INDUSTRY, IS THE FAIRNESS OF PRODUCT, RIGHT? IS THE JOURNALISM FAIR? IS IT ASKING THE RIGHT QUESTIONS? IS IT HOLDING FOLKS TO ACCOUNT? AND I THINK IF THAT IS TRUE, IT DOESN’T REALLY MATTER TO ME WHAT THE PERSONAL OPINIONS OF THE REPORTER ARE, RIGHT? GOOD WORK IS GOOD WORK. SOLEDAD: ALICIA GARZA, OFTEN PROTESTS DON’T GET COVERED UNTIL THEY GET VIOLENT, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT BECOMES "GOOD TV". AND SO PEOPLE SITTING AROUND WALKING DOWN THE STREET PEACEFULLY, IT’S KIND OF BORING ON TV. ALICIA: I MEAN, HERE’S THE CONSEQUENCE TO THAT KIND OF SENSATIONALISM IS THAT WE ACTUALLY MISS WHAT’S HAPPENING. SO THE REALITY IS IN THE MAJORITY OF PROTESTS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, THERE ISN’T ANY PROPERTY DESTRUCTION. BLACK PEOPLE TAKING TO THE STREETS IS SEEN AS EDGY AN DANGEROUS AND SOMETHING TH PEOPLE WANT TO WATCH. WE HAVE ALWAYS KIND OF BEEN FRAMED WITHIN THIS KIND OF CONTEXT OF, YOU KNOW, WHEN BLACK PEOPLE GET ANGRY, THERE’S DESTRUCTION THAT HAPPENS. AND IT’S A RACIST IDEA THAT UNFORTUNATELY IS ENDURING. AND IT’S NOT JUST IN FICTION OR REALITY TELEVISION, RIGHT, IT’S ALSO IN OUR NEWS COVERAGE. I THINK THE OTHER PIECE OF THIS STORY, THOUGH, QUITE FRANKLY, THAT THIS TYPE OF COVERAGE HAS HELPED TO LEAD TOWARDS AN EROSION OF OUR DEMOCRACY. WHEN WE LOOK AT NEWS COVERAGE, RIGHT, IT’S SUPPOSED TO HE PEOPLE BE SMARTER ABOUT WHAT’S HAPPENING AROUND THEM AND BE MORE ENGAGED CITIZENS. THAT’S THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF JOURNALISM. AND YET WHEN WE MAKE THESE KINDS OF FAILURES IN TELLING STORIES, WHAT WE’RE DOING, QUITE FRANKLY, IS NUMBING PEOPLE AND DUMBING PEOPLE DOWN. SOLEDAD: ALWAYS NICE TO SEE YOU. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. PROTEST AND FREE SPEECH ARE DEEPLY INTERTWINED. BOTH CONTRIBUTE TO OUR NATIONAL DIALOGUE. RAISE SERIOUS ISSUES. AND ARE INTENDED TO MAKE A POINT. SOMETIMES, THE BEST WAY TO MAKE THAT POINT IS WITH COMEDY. HERE’S COMEDIAN AND YOUTUBE FINA TRAE CROWDER, THE CO-AUTHOR OF THE LIBERAL REDNECK MANIFESTO. TRAE: LET’S TALK ABOUT RIOTS. HERE’S SOME STATS FROM ONE NIGHT. $5 MILLION IN PROPERTY DAMAGE, 140 INJURIES, 9 POLICE OFFICERS INJURED, FOUR CIVILIANS STABBED, 17 COP CARS SET ON FIRE, COUNTLESS LOCAL BUSINESS LOOTED AND VANDALIZED. I’M TALKING OF COURSE ABOUT THE 2011 VANCOUVER STANLEY CUP RIOTS. WHEN THE MOSTLY WHITE CITIZENS OF ONE OF THE MOST AFFLUENT CITIES IN NORTH AMERICA SET IT ON FIRE BECAUSE THEIR HOCKEY TEAM LOST. AND IF YOU’RE THINKING THAT A CANADA HOCKEY THING, WELL AFTER THE 2018 SUPER BOWL PHILLY RIOTED BECAUSE THEIR TEAM WO PROLLY DIDN’T EXPECT THOSE EXAMPLES TO COME OUT OF MY MOUTH, DID YOU? WHY NOT? WAS IT ’CAUSE MY ACCENT? YEAH, I KNOW, IT’S FUNNY HOW BIAS WORKS, ISN’T IT. BIAS COLORS EVERYTHING, INCLUDING THE DIFFERING PERCEPTIONS BETWEEN WHITE RIOT AND BLACK ONES. LOT OF Y’ALL PROBABLY DIDN’T EVEN REMEMBER THE VANCOUVER CUP RIOT, BECAUSE NO ONE EVER REALLY CARED. WHITE PEOPLE HAVE A LOT MORE RIOTS TO THEIR NAMES TOO, SOME OF WHICH ARE OVER THINGS, LIKE PUMPKINS AND FIRED COLLEGE FOOTBALL COACHES. THOSE ARE REAL. YOU CAN GOOGLE IT. BUT THEY MOSTLY FLY UNDER THE RADAR. WHY? IS IT BECAUSE WHITE PEOPLE TEND TO RIOT OVER COMICALLY STEREOTYPICAL AND TRIVIAL REASONS? LIKE, I HAVEN’T CONFIRMED THIS ONE, BUT I THINK THERE IS A FAIR TO MIDDLING CHANCE THERE WAS A MAYONNAISE RIOT IN NEW HAMPSHIRE IN THE ’80’S. OR IS IT BECAUSE WHITE PEOPLE ARE JUST LOOKED AT DIFFERENTLY BY SOCIETY? BECAUSE EVEN WHEN THE REASONS FOR A WHITE RIOT ARE OBJECTIVELY HEINOUS AND INDEFENSIBLE, LI IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, YOU STILL HAVE THE PRESIDENT SAYING THERE WERE A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE INVOLVED. ALSO, IT’S APPARENTLY OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO MARCH ON THE CAPITAL WITH AR’S STRAPPED TO ’EM TO PROTEST FOR COVID RIGHTS, BECAUSE OF THE SECOND AMENDMENT, BUT IT’S NOT OKAY FOR PEOPLE TO PROTEST FOR THEIR LIVES UNDER THE 14TH OR 15TH AMENDMENT WELL I FOR ONE CALLABLE -- I CAN’T. I CAN’T. Y’ALL KNOW WHAT I MEAN. IT’S DUMB. THAT STUFF’S DUMB. IT’S ESPECIALLY DUMB BECAUSE WHETHER THEY REALIZE IT OR NOT, THE RACISTS HAVE SHOWN THEIR HAND AT THIS POINT. SEE THEY USED TO ACT LIKE IT WAS OKAY TO PROTEST, JUST THAT THERE WAS A RIGHT WAY AND A WRONG WAY TO GO ABOUT IT. BUT IF YOU’RE WHITE AND THE GOALIE HAD A BAD NIGHT, THEN BURN IT DOWN, STEVE. BUT I DIGRESS. BUT COLIN KAEPERNICK ILLUSTRATED AND THE BEGINNING OF THIS YEAR’S NFL SEASON CONFIRMED THAT AL THAT IS BULL. THAT’S ALSO DUMB. IN CASE YOU MISSED IT, DURING THE FIRST NFL GAME OF THE SEASON IN KANSAS CITY PLAYERS ON BOTH TEAMS LOCKED ARMS WHILE STANDING, NOT KNEELING, IN A DISPLAY OF UNITY AND WERE BOO-ED MERCILESSLY BY THE SLOBBERING FANS IN ATTENDANCE GO CHIEFS. BOO BLACKS. THEY BOOED THE CONCEPT OF ONE-NESS AS A SPECIES, Y’ALL! AND THAT PROVES IT’S NOT ABOUT THE RIOTS FOR THEM, IT’S NEVER BEEN ABOUT THE RIOTS, IT’S NOT THE ACTIONS OF A TINY FRACTION OF PEOPLE AT THESE PROTESTS THAT UPSETS THEM, IT’S THE OPINIONS THAT THE BLACK PEOPLE WHO ORGANIZE THE PROTEST HAD THE AUDACITY TO DISPLAY IN PUBLI HOW DARE THEY? THERE IS NO FORM OF PUBLIC DISPLAY THAT PEOPLE OF COLOR THAT THEY WILL EVER ACCEPT, SO AS FAR AS I’M CONCERNED TH LOGICAL CONCLUSION TO THAT IS KEEP TURNIN’ UP Y’ALL, WE’RE GETTIN’ TO ’EM, YEAH! SOLEDAD: SOMETIMES A PERFORMER WILL TURN THEIR ART INTO PROTEST. THAT’S THE STORY OF RAPPER GENESIS BE, WHOSE REAL NAME IS GENESIS ISRAELI ROSE SCHMITZ BRIGGS BE. SHE TOOK TO THE STAGE FOUR YEARS AGO WEARING A CONFEDERATE FLAG AND A NOOSE AROUND HER NECK PROTEST OVER RACIAL INJUSTICE. MISSISSIPPI IS A MICROCOSM OF A COUNTRY THAT ALWAYS NEEDED ME, BUT NEVER WANTED ME. I AM GENESIS BE. MY FIRST INTRODUCTION TO RELIGION WAS BEING RAISED MUSLIM. BOTH OF MY PARENTS CONVERTED TO ISLAM BEFORE I WAS BORN. MY MOTHER IS A CATHOLIC WHITE WOMAN FROM WISCONSIN. MY FATHER’S A BLACK MA BAPTIST, FROM MISSISSIPPI. MY MELANIN IS SKIN IS A SIN. SENT US TO BUILD YOUR ECONOM PACK THE PRISONS. FILL THE QUOTA. MAKE US FELONS, NEVER VOTERS. I’M ON TOUR NOW WITH A GROUP CALLED VOTE COMMON GOOD. AND THEY’RE ALL CHRISTIAN LEADERS. THEY’RE GOING INTO OTHER CHRISTIAN TERRITORIES, WHITE CHRISTIAN TERRITORIES, TO TRY TO GET THEM TO APPEAL WITH MORALITY INSTEAD OF PARTY ALLEGIANCE, AND ASKING THESE REALLY HARD QUESTIONS LIKE "WOULD JESUS BE OKAY WITH CHILDREN BEING IN CAGES," RIGHT. >> ♪ OH YEAH, I’M ON ONE, AND I DON’T MEAN A PILL. I’M TALKING PAYING OFF MY STUDENT LOANS WITHOUT A DEAL. TURNED MY HATERS TO BELIEVERS. ON THE REAL, HOW YOU FEEL? TALKING, SKIPPING COMPROMISE. WE JUST GO IN FOR THE KILL ♪ GENESIS: THERE COMES A POINT WHERE OUR NATION HAS TO EITHER ACKNOWLEDGE THE BRUTALITY OF THE PAST AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO HEAL, OR DENY THE BRUTALITY OF THE PAST, DENY ITS HISTORY, AND ALLOW DIVISION TO RIP IT APART. 2016 I DID A PROTEST AT SOB’S HERE IN NEW YORK. MISSISSIPPI’S GOVERNOR, PH BRYANT, HAD JUST NAMED APRIL CONFEDERATE HERITAGE MONTH. AND I WAS ANGRY. SO I WENT, I BOUGHT A FLAG, I BOUGHT A NOOSE, DRAPED MYSELF IN THE FULL CONFEDERATE FLAG, HUNG A NOOSE AROUND MY NECK AND HAD SOME CHOICE WORDS TO MY GOVERNOR MISSISSIPPI JUST NAMED APRIL CONFEDERATE HERITAGE MONTH. THEY HAVE THE AUDACITY TO NAME APRIL CONFEDERATE HERITAGE MONTH. WHEN THE FLAG FINALLY CAME DOWN, YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND, LIKE DURING THAT TIME, IT WAS AT THE HEIGHT OF THE GEORGE FLOYD PROTESTS. AND I WAS IN MISSISSIPPI AT TH TIME. I HAD WENT BACK. I KNEW IT WAS GOING TO BE A POINT WHERE WE HAVE TO STRIKE WHILE THE IRON IS HOT. SO LITERALLY WITHIN ONE WEEK I’VE SEEN THE CONVERSATION CHANGE IN MISSISSIPPI. SO TO SEE IT COME DOWN WITHIN MY LIFETIME AND LIKE I’M STILL YOUNG AND HAVE ENERGY, IT’S A BLESSING. IT’S A BLESSING. >> ♪ YOU KNOW ME YOU SAY NOTHING AIN’T CHANGING WHAT YOU SAYING? KILL THE NOISE. YOU AIN’T LOADING, JUST COMPLAINING ♪ GENESIS: WE PUT TOO MUCH EMPHASIS ON THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES. AND TO ASSIGN THAT MUCH POWER TO ANY MAN WILL EVENTUALLY RENDER YOU POWERLESS. YOU KNOW, SO THAT’S MY MESSAGE. WHEN I SPEAK TO THESE CROWDS, I TELL THEM, "YOU TAKE ACCOUNTABILITY. YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS, AND ASK YOURSEL EVERY DAY, HOW ARE YOU PERPETUATING DIVISION?" YOU SAY YOU’RE AGAINST SEXISM OR AGAINST RACISM AND ALL OF THESE THINGS. BUT WHAT ARE YOU DOING PERSONALLY TO DISMANTLE BOTH INSTITUTIONS? RIGHT. BECAUSE IT HAS TO COME FROM THE PEOPLE. SOLEDAD: BIAS AND THE RACIAL INEQUALITY THAT STEMS FROM IT, WEARS PEOPLE DOWN. CREATES DIVISIONS. PUSHES PEOPLE TO PROTEST. THAT’S THE POINT FORMER N-F-L QUARTERBACK COLLIN KAEPERNICK WAS MAKING WHEN HE TOOK A KNEE DURING THE NATIONAL ANTHEM. AN ACT OF PROTEST THAT CAPTURED NATIONAL ATTENTION AND MOTIVATED OTHER ATHLETES TO ACTION. JOINING US TO TALK ABO ATHLETES AND ACTIVISM, SPORTS JOURNALIST JEMELE HILL, RETIRED NBA PLAYER AND AUTHOR ETAN THOMAS, AND SOCIA -- SOCIOLOGIST, DR. RASHAWN RAY. SOLEDAD: BACK IN 2019 IN A PIECE THAT YOU DID FOR "THE ATLANTIC", YOU WROTE THIS. THE NFL PLAYED OUT A MODERN FORM OF A SCENARIO ALL-TOO-FAMILIAR IN AMERICAN HISTORY. THE LEAGUE SHOWED BLACK EMPLOYEES THAT THEIR LIVELIHOOD WOULD BE DESTROYED IF THEY QUESTIONED WHITE DOMINANCE AND THREATENED THE SYSTEMS THAT HAVE OPPRESSED PEOPLE OF COLOR FOR CENTURIES. DO YOU THINK THAT HAS CHANGED IN THE APPROXIMATE YEAR SINCE YOU’VE WRITTEN THAT? MANY MORE PEOPLE, MANY MORE ATHLETES ARE KNEELING NOW. JEMELE: WE’RE TALKING ABOUT A LEAGUE THAT HAS USED BLACK LABOR TO GENERATE WHITE WEALTH. THERE’S A LONG HISTORY OF BLACK PEOPLE BEING ACCEPTED FOR THE ENTERTAINMENT THEY PROVIDE UP UNTIL THE POINT THAT THEY REMIND THOSE WHO ARE PAYING THEM OR GIVING THEM WHATEVER PLATFORM OR EMPLOYING THEM IN WHATEVER MANNER, UNTIL THEY REMIND THEM THAT THEY’RE ACTUALLY BLACK PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO LIVE IN AMERICA. THE MOMENT YOU START TALKING ABOUT INSTITUTIONAL RACISM AND STRUCTURES THAT OPPRESS PEOPLE LIKE YOU, THAT IS WHEN THEY DON’T WANT TO HEAR FROM THEM ANYMORE AND THEY JUST WANT TO KEEP THEM IN THIS PARTICULAR BOX AND KEEP THEM COMPARTMENTALIZED, BECAUSE THEN IT MAKES IT EASIER TO DEHUMANIZE THEM. SOLEDAD: SEPTEMBER 12TH WAS THE MOMENT OF UNITY, KANSAS CITY VERSUS HOUSTON, AND THERE WA BOOING PRETTY CLEARLY AND THEN CHEERING YOU COULD HEAR. HOW DID YOU INTERPRET THAT MOMENT JEMELE: I MEAN, LET’S BE HONEST. THIS IS THE MOST GENTRIFIED PROTEST THAT YOU CAN POSSIBLY IMAGINE. YOU HAVE PLAYERS AND LOCKED ARMS. THERE’S NOT A NATIONAL ANTHEM BEING PLAYED. THE MESSAGE IS UNITY. THIS WAS ALWAYS ABOUT ONE THING. THE FACT THAT THE PEOPLE WHO BOOED AND WERE AGAINST THESE PROTESTS DID NOT WANT TO HEAR BLACK PEOPLE SPEAK TO THE CONDITIONS, THE REAL CONDITIONS OF WHAT IT’S LIKE TO BE BLACK IN AMERICA. IT’S ALWAYS THAT. SO IT’S NOT EVEN ABOUT THE FLAG. IT’S NOT ABOUT THE MILITARY. IT’S NOT ABOUT ANY OF THESE OTHER DISTRACTIONS. THEY HAVE ALWAYS TRIED TO MAKE THIS ISSUE ABOUT. IT’S ABOUT THE SIMPLE FACT THAT IN THIS COUNTRY, WHENEVER BLACK PEOPLE SPEAK ABOUT EQUALITY AND FIGHT FOR EQUALITY, IT IS MET WITH RESISTANCE. AND IN THIS CASE, IT IS MET WITH JUST THE RESISTANCE OF PEOPLE SAYING, WE DON’T CARE WHAT YOU SAY TO US, YOU STILL DON’T MATTER. ETAN: IT COULD HAVE BEEN SUCH AN AMAZING MOMENT, YOU KNOW? AND IT COULD HAVE BEEN ALL OF THESE GREAT THINGS, ESPECIALLY LEADING INTO 9/11. BUT IT JUST IT JUST WAS THE OPPOSITE. YOU KNOW, I DON’T THINK IT WAS AN OUTLIER. I DON’T THINK IT WAS SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, ISN’T DIRECTLY CONNECTED TO OUR NATION AS A WHOLE. THERE IS THIS INCREDIBLE DIVIDE AND THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO, WHO ARE NOT ON THE SIDE OF EQUALITY. YOU KNOW, NOT ON THE SIDE JUSTICE NOT ON THE SIDE OF ANTI-RACISM. SOLEDAD: RASHAWN, YOU TWEETED THE OTHER DAY, AND I’LL JUST PARAPHRASE IT, THAT THIS IDEA THAT THE PROTESTS HAD BEEN MADE POLITICAL, THAT THEY SOMEHOW BEEN WRESTLED INTO BEING A POLITICAL POINT OF VIEW VERSUS A MORAL POINT OF VIEW. AND YOU SAY THEY SHOULD REALLY BE MORAL. DR. RAY: YOU KNOW, IT’S HIGHLY PROBLEMATIC TO SEE PEOPLE POLITICIZING THIS. SO WE HAVE TO BE VERY CLEAR AND IT’S OF COURSE, MOST PEOPLE KNOW THIS, THAT RIGHT NOW WE ARE LIVING IN A LEVEL OF POLITICAL PARTISANSHIP THAT WE HAVEN’T REALLY EXPERIENCED IN MODERN HISTOR AND AT THIS MOMENT, WHEN PEOPLE ARE TWEETING AND MAKING STATEMENTS LIKE, "OH, I DON’T TURN ON THE NFL OR THE NBA TO WATCH SOMETHING POLITICAL." RACIAL JUSTICE IS NOT POLITICAL. IT’S A MORAL ISSUE. IT IS A CIVIL ISSUE. IT IS A HUMANE ISSUE. AND WHEN WE POLITICIZE IT, I HIGHLIGHTS THE WAY THAT PEOPLE ARE ABLE TO DISMISS IT. SOLEDA JEMELE, THE ROLE OF THE WNBA HAS BEEN QUITE REMARKABLE. BUT OFTEN WOMEN ARE LEFT OUT OF THIS CONVERSATION, SORT OF WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ATHLETES, I THINK PEOPLE LITERALLY IN THEIR MIND THINK MALE ATHLETES. JEMELE: THESE WOMEN ARE USED TO THIS FIGHT. THEY’RE USED TO HAVING TO FIGHT FOR RESPECT. FOR EQUALITY BECAUSE MOST OF THEM HAVE DONE IT THEIR WHOLE CAREERS. THEY’VE BEEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE THEIR ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND THEM JUST SIMPLY HAVING ACCESS TO THEIR SPORT HAS BEEN MINIMIZED OR THEY HAVEN’T HAD THE SAME ACCESS AS ME SO, THEY ARE BETTER EQUIPPED TO FIGHT THIS THAN PRACTICALLY ANYBODY BASED OFF WHAT THEIR COLLECTIVE STRUGGLE HAS BEEN. SOLEDAD: ETAN, DOC RIVERS SAID THIS THING THAT WAS SO ALMOST HARD TO WATCH, IT WAS SO EMOTIONAL, HE SAID, YOU KNOW, "WE BLACK PEOPLE LOVE THIS COUNTRY AND THIS COUNTRY DOE NOT LOVE US BACK." ETAN: YOU KNOW, EVERY BLACK PERSON FELT HIM ON THAT, LIKE FELT HIS EMOTION, UNDERSTOOD EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS SAYING, THAT WE, WE KNOW, YOU LOVE THIS COUNTRY AND YOU’RE BORN HERE AND YOU’RE YOU HAVE THIS HISTORY HERE AND EVERYTHING LIKE THAT. BUT THE COUNTRY DOESN’T LOVE YOU BACK, YOU KNOW? AND THEN THE FIRST THE FIRST REACTION IS, OH, WELL, YOU MAKE THIS AMOUNT OF MONEY. IT’S NOT ABOUT MONEY, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? BECAUSE IF I GO OUT RIGHT NOW AND I’M DRIVING IN THE STREET AND I GET STOPPED BY THE POLICE, IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT MY, MY 401K IS, IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT MY PORTFOLIO IS WHAT MY DEGREE IS. ALL THEY SEE IS A BLACK MAN WHO IS A THREA AND AT THAT POINT, YOU HAVE TO CONVINCE THE OFFICER TO LOOK A YOU AS A HUMAN AND NOT TO, TO KILL YOU THAT’S NOT A SITUATION THAT WHITE PEOPLE HAVE TO DEAL WITH. SOLEDAD: RASHAWN, DO YOU SEE THE ACTIVISM OF ATHLETES, BLACK ATHLETES SPECIFICALLY HAVING AN IMPACT BEYOND AWARENESS AND BEYOND KIND OF ELEVATING THE STORY? DR. RAY: YEAH, I COMPLETELY DO. I MEAN, SO I WROTE A PIECE AT THE BROOKINGS INSTITUTION LIKE, WHAT SHOULD ATHLETES BE DEMANDING IN THIS MOMENT? THEY SHOULD ACTUALLY BE DEMANDING THAT THEIR TAX MONEY NOT BE USED FOR THESE CIVILIAN PAYOFFS. WE SHOULD MAKE A SHIFT FROM TAXPAYER MONEY TO POLICE DEPARTMENT INSURANCE POLICIES. THE SECOND BIG THING IS THAT THEY SHOULD ADVOCATE FOR THE GEORGE FLOYD JUSTICE AND POLICING ACT. THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES PASSED THIS BILL LED BY CONGRESSWOMAN BASS. IT IS THE MOST PROGRESSIVE AND TRANSFORMATIVE POLICE REFORM THAT WE’VE HAD PROBABLY IN AMERICAN HISTORY. AND I THINK WHEN IT COMES TO HOLDING OFFICERS ACCOUNTABLE, IT’S NOT SIMPLY ABOUT DOING AND -- DOING IMPLICIT BIAS TRAININGS WHICH I’VE DONE WITH THOUSANDS OF OFFICERS OR HAVING THEM PUT ON BODY WORN CAMERAS. YEAH, THAT DOES HELP FOR AWARENESS, BUT WE HAVE TO CHANGE THE ACCOUNTABILITY STRUCTURE. SOLEDAD: TO ALL OF YOU, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS CONVERSATION. REALLY APPRECIATE IT. RASHAWN RAY AND JEMELE HILL AND ETAN THOMAS, THANK YOU, GUYS ASK ANY PERSON OF COLOR, AND THEY WILL TELL YOU BIAS IS PERVASIVE. BIAS COMES AT YOU. HOW PEOPLE LOOK AT YOU HOW THEY SIZE YOU UP. IN THE EXPECTATIONS THEY HAVE FOR YOU. A FRIEND OF MINE, WES MOORE, WROTE A BOOK ABOUT THE IMPACT OF THOSE EXPECTATIONS. A BOOK THAT BECAME A NEW YORK TIMES BESTSELLER. TITLED, THE OTHER WES MOORE, IT TELLS THE STORY OF TWO KIDS BORN BLOCKS APART, IN SIMILAR BALTIMORE NEIGHBORHOODS. ONE GREW UP A CONVICTED MURDERER SERVING A LIFE SENTENCE. THE OTHER, A RHODES SCHOLA DECORATED VETERAN, SOCIAL ENTREPRENEUR, AND CEO. WES MOORE, NICE TO SEE. YOUR FAMOUS BOOK WAS CALLED "THE OTHER WES MOORE", AND IT WAS ABOUT YOU, BUT NOT ABOUT YOU IT WAS ABOUT ANOTHER GUY, BUT REALLY, IT WAS A LOOK AT ACCESS AND OPPORTUNITY. TELL ME A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT BOOK. WES: THAT BOOK REALLY STARTED THE DAY AFTER I’D RECEIVED THE RHODES SCHOLARSHIP, HOW THE BALTIMORE SUN WAS WRITING THIS ARTICLE ABOUT MY LIFE AND MY JOURNEY AND HOW THIS LOCAL KID WHO HAD CHALLENGES COMING UP B NOW IS GETTING THE SCHOLARSHIP TO GO OVERSEAS AND GO STUDY AT THE SAME TIME, THEY’RE WRITING A WHOLE SERIES OF ARTICLES, ABOUT FOUR GUYS WHO WALK INTO A JEWELRY STORE AND IN THE PROCESS OF A BOTCHED ARMED ROBBERY AFTER THE POLICE OFFICER WAS KILLED. AND ONE OF THE PEOPLE WHO THE POLICE WERE LOOKING FOR WAS ACTUALLY CAPTURED AND TRIED AND CONVICTED FOR THIS CRIME WAS A GUY WHOSE NAME WAS ALSO WEST MOORE. AND WE WERE FROM THE SAME AREAS AROUND THE SAME AGE. WE BOTH GREW UP IN SINGLE PARENT HOUSEHOLDS. WE BOTH HAD ACADEMIC AND DISCIPLINARY TROUBLES COMING UP. AND THE MORE I GOT TO KNOW HIM, THE MORE WE BECAME FRIENDS THE MORE I BEGAN TO REALIZE HOW QUICK AS A SOCIETY WE ARE, WE ARE SO FAST TO EITHER CONGRATULATE OR CASTIGATE WITHOUT EVER REALLY BEING ABLE TO UNDERSTAND DYNAMICS AND PATHWAYS AND JOURNEYS AND OPPORTUNITIES. AND AS AS WES SAID, THE FACT THAT IN MANY WAYS WE END UP BECOMING PRODUCTS OF OUR EXPECTATIONS. SOLEDAD: TODAY, YOU SERVE AS THE CEO OF ROBIN HOOD AND YOU’RE FOCUSED A LOT, ROBIN HOOD IS FOCUSED A LOT ON POVERTY AND ENDING POVERTY. EXPLAIN TO EVERYONE HOW RACE INTERSECTS WITH POVERTY. WES: RACE IS THE MOST PREDICTIVE, MOST, MOST PREDICTIVE INDICATOR FOR LIFE OUTCOMES THAT WE WILL SEE. EVERYTHING FROM INCOME AND WEALTH TO EDUCATIONAL ATTAINMENT TO MATERNAL MORTALITY. ALL RIGHT. THE FACT THAT, YOU KNOW, THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A 10 TO ONE RACIAL WEALTH GAP IN THIS COUNTRY IS NOT BECAUSE ONE FAMILY WORK 10 TIMES HARDER. THE FACT THAT THAT RIGHT NOW, TRUE STATISTIC THAT A WHITE PERSON WHO WAS RECENTLY RELEASED FROM PRISON HAS A BETTER CHANC OF GETTING AN ENTRY LEVEL JOB THAN A BLACK PERSON WITHOUT ANY TYPE OF CRIMINAL INVOLVEMENT. AND SO ALL THESE THINGS, I THINK WHEN WE’RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS THE CORRELATION BETWEEN RACE AND POVERTY OR PEOPLE SAY, OH, IT’S NOT RACE. IT’S POVERTY. YOU CAN’T SEPARATE THE TWO. IF YOU’RE LOOKING AT NOT JUST THE HISTORY THAT WE THEN HAVE TO CONTEND WITH, BUT THIS STILL BAKED IN INFRASTRUCTURE THAT WE STILL HAVE TO TRY TO OVERCOME. SOLEDAD: YOU’RE WORKING ON A NEW INITIATIVE AT ROBIN HOOD THAT LOOKS AT WHO GETS THE MONEY IN PHILANTHROPY TALK TO ME ABOUT WHAT YOU’RE TRYING TO SOLVE AND WHY. IF YOU LOOK AT OVER THE PAST TWO DECADES, PHILANTHROPY AS A WHOLE, AROUND 10 PERCENT OF ALL PHILANTHROPIC DOLLARS HAVE GONE TO ORGANIZATIONS THAT ARE LED BY PEOPLE OF COLOR, 10 PERCENT. SOLEDA WHY DOES THAT MATTER? SOMEONE MIGHT SAY, WHO CARES WHO IS LEADING IT? AS LONG AS WHOEVER IS LEADING IT IS ACTUALLY HELPING THOSE PEOPLE WHO NEED THOSE PHILANTHROPIC DOLLARS. SO I WOULD SAY IT MATTERS FOR TWO DIFFERENT REASONS. ONE IS PROXIMITY DOES MATTER. PROXIMITY DOES MATTER BECAUSE THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE CLOSEST TO THE CHALLENGE ARE OFTENTIMES GOING TO BE THE ONES WHO ARE CLOSER TO THE SOLUTIONS. AND OFTENTIMES THEY ARE NEVER AT THE TABLE. IF YOUR PHILANTHROPY AND YOUR GRANT GIVING IS NOT DONE WITH A TRUE SPIRIT OF BOTH PARTNERSHI AND THE RELEASING OF POWER, YOUR ALTRUISM WILL BE VIEWED AS SOMETHING ELSE. YOUR ALTRUISM WILL BE VIEWED AS PATERNALIS AND THERE IS NOTHING MORE DANGEROUS WHEN IT COMES TO HELPING TO, YOU KNOW, SOLVE OU COMMUNITY’S PROBLEMS THAN A PERSON WALKING IN THINKING THAT THE PEOPLE WHO YOU ARE THERE TO SERVE SERVE ARE PEOPLE WHO NEED TO BE FIXE SOLEDAD: I’VE HAD SOME CONVERSATIONS WI PHILANTHROPIC, BIG PHILANTHROPIC ORGANIZATIONS AND I HAVE FOUND THAT OFTEN PEOPLE WHO ARE VERY INTO PHILANTHROPY AND GIVE A LOT OF MONEY REALLY ARE COMFORTABLE WITH CERTAIN KINDS OF PHILANTHROPY WELL, BUT THE MINUTE YOU TALK ABOUT LIKE OWNING PROPERTY OR OR WEALTH. AND IT’S NOT KIDS AND BACKPACKS AND HUGGY PHOTO OP. IT GETS A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE WES: AND THEY HAVE TO UNDERSTAND WHY THEIR PHILANTHROPY IS NECESSARY IN THE FIRST PLACE. AND IT’S BECAUSE WE’RE NOT ADDRESSING THESE BIGGER ISSUES. AND I APPLAUD ANYONE WHO SAYS I WANT TO BE ABLE TO GIVE MY CAPITAL TOWARDS PHILANTHROPY. I ALSO KNOW THIS, IN FACT, IS A QUOTE THAT SITS ON MY DESK IN MY OFFICE FROM FROM DR. KING. AND IT SAYS, PHILANTHROPY IS COMMENDABLE. BUT THE PHILANTHROPISTS CAN NEVER FORGET THE ECONOMIC INJUSTICE THAT MAKES PHILANTHROPY NECESSARY. SOLEDAD: EXPLAIN HOW BIAS FITS INTO ALL OF THIS HOW DOES BIAS CREATE THE PREVENTION OF OPPORTUNITY OR H DOES BIAS CONTRIBUTE TO INEQUALITY? I THINK BIAS IS SO IMPORTANT, UNDERSTAND, BECAUSE BIAS IS WHAT BUILT SYSTEMS. BIAS IS ACTUALLY WHAT CLOUDS, QUESTIONS THAT HAVE TO BE ASKED OR HAVE TO BE ANSWERED. BIAS IS THE THING THAT WE JUST THOSE ARE THE THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WE EVENTUALLY DECIDE. AND SO I THINK THE PART OF THE REASON WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THAT BIAS DOES EXIST. IT ALSO ALLOWS FOR THE FACT THAT WHEN WE SEE THE DATA THAT THE DATA IS NOT THE DATA ACCIDENTALLY. RIGHT. SO WHEN WE LOOK AT T DISPARITIES THAT EXIST IN THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP, THAT’S NOT JUST BECAUSE THAT’S KIND OF THE WAY IT’S BEEN. BIAS IS SOMETHING THAT IF THE DATA CONTINUES TO SHOW U SOMETHING, IF WE ARE NOT ABLE TO ACT ON IT AND MOVE ON. AND IF WE’RE NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WHY THOSE DISCREPANCIES EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE. THAT IS NOT JUST A BIAS. IT WAS ALSO IN AN IGNORING OF A BIAS THAT WE SAW BEFORE. HENCE CREATING THE LARGER PROBLEMS THAT WE’VE BEEN TALKING ABOUT. SOLEDAD: WES MOORE, SO NICE TO SEE YOU. CONVERSATIONS LIKE THE ONES WE’RE HAVING NOW ARE TAXING. IF YOU ARE THINKING WE’VE BEE THROUGH THIS BEFORE. YOU ARE RIGHT. SO WHY ARE WE STILL HERE? THE STRUGGLE FOR RACIAL JUSTICE AND CIVIL RIGHTS THAT REMEMBER FROM THE 1960’S IS ONGOING. THE BLACK AND WHITE IMAGES OF THE TIME, FAMILIAR. ONE IMPORTANT AND PROVOCATIVE VOICE OF THAT ERA WAS JAMES BALDWIN. AN ESSAYIST, NOVELIST, AND PLAYWRIGHT, BALDWIN ADDRESSED THE ISSUE OF RACIAL INEQUALI WITH A DIRECT AND UNFLINCHING DEMEANOR. IN JULY OF 1968, ESQUIRE MAGAZINE PUBLISHED AN INTERVIEW WITH BALDWIN. IT WENT TO PRINT AFTER THE ASSASSINATION OF DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING JR. THE CONVERSATION REFLECTED THE CRISIS IN THE COUNTRY THEN. AND NOW. WE INVITED MICHAEL SEBASTIAN, WHO IS NOW THE EDITOR IN CHIEF OF ESQUIRE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH A BALWIN SCHOLAR, PRINCETON PROFESSOR EDDIE GLAUDE. WE ASKED THEM HOW THAT INTERVIEW WOULD GO TODAY. WOULD THE SAME QUESTIONS BE ASKE >> PROFESSOR, I WANT TO JUST GET STARTED BY KIND OF CONTEXTUALIZING THIS JAMES BALDWIN INTERVIEW IN 1968. IT CAME OUT IN THE JULY ISSUE. SO THAT MEANS THAT THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN PRODUCING THAT ISSUE IN ABOUT APRIL OR MAY. AND THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN JUST AFTER THE ASSASSINATION OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JUNIOR. BUT I’M JUST CURIOUS, CAN YOU KIND OF BREAK DOWN WHERE JAMES BALDWIN’S HEAD WAS, AS HE’S DOING AS HE’S DOING THIS INTERVIEW AT THIS TIME? PROF. GLAUDE: HE FINDS OUT THAT KING IS ASSASSINATED WHILE HE’S IN CALIFORNIA, IN HOLLYWOOD, WORKING ON THIS DISASTROUS ATTEMPT TO BRING THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF MALCOLM X TO THE SCREEN. AND HE RECEIVES A PHONE CALL. BILLY DEE WILLIAMS IS THER BECAUSE HE WANTS ABILITY TO PLAY MALCOLM. AND HE RECEIVES THE PHONE CALL THAT SAYS KING HAS BEEN SHOT. HE’S ALIVE, BUT IT DOESN’T LOOK GOOD. AND BILLY DEE WILLIAMS DESCRIB THE MOMENT BALDWIN IN EFFECT, COLLAPSES AND STARTS TO WEEP. AND HE SAYS THAT HE NEVE THOUGHT THAT JIMMY GOT OVER THAT. SO I THINK THE ASSASSINATION OF DR. KING IN 68 MADE HIM RAIS SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE CAPACITY OF THE COUNTRY AND THE CAPACITY AND THE MORAL CAPACITY OF THOSE WHO WOULD TAKE, W WOULD TAKE THE LIFE OF THE PERSON WHO CALLED THE APOSTLE OF LOVE. >> SO IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THERE IS THIS THIS THIS, I GUESS, ANGER THAT WE’RE, WE’RE TAPPI INTO RIGHT THERE IN FEAR. AND I MEAN, IT’S RAW, IT FEELS VERY RAW. PROF. GLAUDE: WELL, IT’S NOT FEAR, IT’S IS RAGE. UNADULTERATED RAGE. IT IS SOMETHING THAT HE’S GRAPPLING WITH THEY’VE JUST PUT KING IN THE GROUND THEY JUST PUT HIM IN THE GROUND AND DO YOU HEAR WHAT THE REPORTERS ARE ASKING HIM? THE WAY IN WHICH THEY’RE ASKING THE QUESTION. AND, AND LITERALLY, HE’S STILL GRAPPLING WITH GRIEF IN THAT MOMENT. HE SHOWED A LOT OF RESTRAINT, ACTUALLY. >> HE REALLY DOES. AND THERE’S THIS INTERESTING THING THAT HAPPENS WITH THE INTERVIEWER AS IT’S HAPPENING. HE’S CONSTANTLY SAYING, EXPLAIN IT TO ME. EXPLAIN IT TO US. EXPLAIN IT TO ME. AND I AND I FEEL LIKE WE’VE ACTUALLY HEARD A LOT OF THAT IN RECENTLY CERTAINLY AFTER THE KILLING OF GEORGE FLOYD. IT’S ONE OF THESE THINGS WHERE YOU, I’VE HEARD BLACK PEOPLE SAY WE’RE EXHAUSTED BY HAVING TO EXPLAIN THIS TO YOU. WHY HAVEN’T YOU NOTICED? WHY HAVEN’T YOU SEEN THIS? AND IT SEEMS LIKE THAT’S WHAT JAMES BALDWIN WAS SAYING IN 1968. PROF. GLAUDE: IT’S FRUSTRATING, RIGHT? BECAUSE THERE’S A KIND OF WILLFUL IGNORANCE. OH, MY GOD, IS THIS AMERICA? WHAT KIND OF QUESTION IS THAT? AND IT’S OVER AND OVER AGAIN. IT’S THIS DEMAND THAT WE GIVE A ACCOUNT OF THE WORLD AS IT IS TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT WE’RE EXPERIENCING AND FEELING IN THIS MOMENT. >> THERE IS THIS LINE. I MEAN, THERE’S SO MANY REMARKABLE LINES IN IT. BUT I WROTE THIS DOWN BECAUSE IT’S INTERESTING. HE SAYS, THIS IS BALDWIN, HE SAYS, I HAVE TO ASK YOU A VERY IMPERTINENT QUESTION. AND THEN HE SAYS, HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOU POSSIBLY BEGIN TO CATEGORIZE THE PEOPLE OF A COMMUNITY WHOM YOU DO NOT KNOW AT ALL? NOW ALL OF A SUDDEN, THE RAGE THAT YOU TALK ABOUT BEGINS TO SIMMER TO THE TOP OF IT. PROF. GLAUDE: WHAT BOTHERED HIM IS, YOU KNOW, THE DESCRIPTION OF THOSE FOLKS WHO ARE IN THE STREETS AS LOOTERS, RIGHT? THE KIND OF DEMAND TO CONDEMN, YOU KNOW, THE VIOLENCE, RIGHT? AND BALDWIN IS TRYING TO GET THE INTERVIEWER TO SEE WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS UNDER WHICH THIS HAPPENS. THE PEOPLE WHO STEAL THE TV AREN’T INTERESTED IN THE TELEVISION. AND YOU FIND YOURSELF, EVEN IF YOU’RE NOT INVESTED IN THAT, RIGH EVEN THOUGH YOU’RE NOT COMMITTED TO THAT KIND OF ACT, YOU FIND YOURSELF HAVING TO DEFEND IT, BUT WHAT’S FRAMING THIS AS WELL IN THE VERY BEGINNING IS HIS ANGER BECAUSE FEBRUARY OF 1968, THE KERNER COMMISSION REPORT H BEEN PUBLISHED. AND THE COMMISSION REPORT LAYS OUT WHY CITIES BUR AND THEN HE SAYS THEY IGNORED IT. THEY IGNORED IT, AND HERE YOU ARE ASKING ME THIS QUESTIO HERE YOU ARE DESCRIBING THES PEOPLE IN THIS WAY, WHEN YOU KNOW WHY THEY’RE DOING THIS. >> HOW FRUSTRATING I IIT THAT HE WAS SAYING THESE THINGS ABOU LOOTERS IN 1968 AND NOW WE FAS FORWARD TO 2020. AND WE HAVE TO SCREENSHOT TH PART OF THE INTERVIEW AND PUT IT UP TO STILL EXPLAIN TO PEOPLE WHAT THE CONTEXT OF THAT, ESSENTIALLY BECAUSE WHITE PEOPLE ARE STILL ASKING THAT QUESTION. PROF. GLAUDE: ALWAYS. ALWAYS. YOU KNOW, AND IT’S THE QUESTION THAT IS ASKED TODAY, I THINK IT’S ALMOST LIKE A LITMUS TES TO DETERMINE, ARE YOU A BAD ONE OR A GOOD ONE? SO, THE LOOTING, YOU HAVE TO DECRY THE VIOLENCE. THEY INVOKE MARTIN LUTHER KING JUNIOR IN THIS MOMENT. AND SO WHAT HAPPENS IS THAT TALKING ABOUT LOOTING AND VIOLENCE SHIFTS THE ATTENTIO AWAY FROM WHAT CAUSED IT ALL. AND THAT IS A KNEE IN THE NECK FOR EIGHT MINUTES AND FORTY SIX SECONDS. >> IN 1968, THE EDITORS OF ESQUIRE WERE ASKING JAMES BALDWIN HOW TO COOL, HOW DO YOU COOL IT, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU COOL IT FOR BLACK PEOPLE? AND NOW WE LOOK AT THAT, PROBABLY THAT PHRASING AND WE KIND OF GO, OH, THAT’S NOT HOW I WOULD ASK THAT QUESTION, IF I WOULD EVEN ASK IT AT ALL. AND YET YOU GO YOU LOOK AT CABLE NEWS, YOU SEE THESE THINGS, AND THEY’RE BASICALLY SAYING THAT THAT VERY SAME THING. THEY’RE JUST NOT USING IT IN THE KIND OF HIP 60S WAY THAT THE ESQUIRE EDITOR DID. PROF. GLAUDE: WELL, THEY USE IT IN THIS LANGUAGE. WELL, DON’T YOU FIND THAT THIS SORT OF BEHAVIOR IS ANTITHETICAL TO YOUR ENDS? THAT THIS IS NOT, THIS IS GOING TO UNDERMINE WHAT YOU WHAT YOU’RE WHAT YOU’RE SEEKING, THE END OF THE DAY, BECAUSE BALDWIN IN THE ESQUIRE INTERVIEW, IS TRYING TO TO INSIST THAT ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS EMANATE FROM A DEEP-SEATED FEAR, RIGHT? THAT THE EXPLOSION IN THES CITIES ACTUALLY REFLECT A FEAR THAT GOES ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE FOUNDING OF THE COUNTRY. YOU CAN FIND IT IN JEFFERSON -- THOMAS JEFFERSON’S NOTES ON THE STATUS STATE OF VIRGINIA. THAT THESE ENSLAVED PEOPLE, THAT GIVEN WHAT WE’RE DOING TO THEM, EITHER GOD’S GOING TO PUNISH US FOR IT OR THEY ARE GOING TO. THEY’VE GOT TO BE THINKING ABOUT REVENGE IN SOME WAY. >> AS WE READ THIS INTERVIEW AND THEN YOU AND I HAVE THIS CONVERSATION, I THINK, WEL SURELY I’M, I’M COMING FROM A DIFFERENT PLACE THAN THESE GUYS ARE COMING THERE. BUT I CAN’T HELP BUT THINK THAT I STILL FALL INTO SOME OF THE TRAPS OR PITFALLS THAT THESE EDITORS DI PROF. GLAUDE: WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT BALDWIN IS TRYING TO DO IN THIS INTERVIEW, WHICH IS SO IMPORTANT, IS TO GET THE, TO GET THE EDITORS TO SEE THAT THE PROBLEM IS NOT U TO FLIP IT. YOU KNOW, WE WERE BORN INTO A WORLD THAT’S ORGANIZED IN SUCH A WAY THAT VALUES WHITE PEOPLE IN A CERTAIN WAY AND DEVALU OTHERS. AND ALONG THAT VALUATION IS THE DISTRIBUTION OF ADVANTAGE AND DISADVANTAGE. RIGH AND SO WHAT HE’S SAYING, "I’VE NEVER BEEN THE N-WORD. I NEVER THOUGHT OF MYSELF AS THE N-WORD. YOU CREATED IT WHY DID YOU NEED IT? ASK YOURSELF THAT QUESTION. IT’S NOT MY LAZINES IT’S NOT MY INABILITY TO SAVE MONEY, IT’S NOT ME, IT’S YOU. THE ONLY THING I HAVE TO DO IS TRY TO SURVIVE IT." >> IF YOU WERE GOING TO RECREATE, TRY TO RECREATE THIS INTERVIEW, THIS THIS STYLE OF INTERVIEW TODAY, WHY WOULDN’T WE HAVE YOU BE INTERVIEWING A WHITE PERSON SAYING THE SAME, ASKING THESE SAME QUESTIONS, BASICALLY SAYING TO WHITE PEOPLE, "HEY, WHITE FOLKS, CAN YOU PLEASE COOL IT?" I MEAN, I THINK THAT’S KIND OF WHAT THE THE TAKEAWAY IS HERE. PROF. GLAUDE: WELL, IN THAT INTERVIEW WITH BALDWIN WANTS TO SAY IS THAT THE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ALL OF THIS RESTS AT THE FEET OF THE NATION, RESTS AT THE FEET OF THOSE WHO ARE COMMITTED TO THE IDEA THAT BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF YOUR SKIN, YOU WANT A SPECIAL KIND OF TREATMENT. IN THIS MOMENT WHERE WE, THAT WE FIND OURSELVES. IT’S A MORAL RECKONING AGAIN. RIGHT? AGAIN, WHERE WE HAVE TO ANSWER THE QUESTION, WHO DO WE TAKE OURSELVES TO B SOLEDAD: WE’RE GLAD YOU JOINED US FOR THIS CONVERSATION ABOUT RACIAL BIAS. WE HOPE YOU HEARD SOMEHING THAT MADE YOU THINK. OR INSPIRED YOU. OR GAVE YOU TOOLS TO HAVE MORE MEANINGFUL AND INFORMED CONVERSATIONS ABOUT RACE AND SOCIAL JUSTICE TO QUOTE JAMES BALDWIN, NOT EVERYTHING THAT IS FACED CAN BE CHANGED. BUT NOTHING CAN BE CHANGED UNTIL IT IS FACED. THROUGHOUT THE SHOW, YOU’VE BEEN SENDING US QUESTIONS. WE’VE BEEN LISTENING. TO HELP ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS WE ASKED DR. MAZHARIN BANAJI TO JOIN US. SHE’S AT THE STUDIO IN BOSTON. NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN. WE BEGIN WITH OUR FIRST QUESTION FROM ELAINE. PERHAPS THESE EXPERTS CAN ADDRESS COLOR IS HIM, VYAS FOR PEOPLE OF COLOR THAT ARE MORE LIGHT-SKINNED, ESPECIALLY WHEN THAT RACISM IS HELD BY SOMEONE IN POWER. TALK TO US ABOUT COLOR IS HIM. DR. BANAJI: HUMAN BEINGS LOOK AT THE WORLD IN THE SIMPLEST POSSIBLE WAYS. WE LATCH ON TO LITTLE THINGS. YOU REMEMBER THE STAR TREK SHOW WHERE THERE WAS A GROUP THAT HAD LIGHT-SKINNED ON ONE SIDE AND DARK SKIN ON THE OTHERS. SO WE PICK UP ON TINY LITTLE DIFFERENCES AMONGST US AND WE MAGNIFY THEM AND MAKE THEM INTO THINGS THAT WE CAN USE TO DISCRIMINATE. COLOR IS ONE OF THEM. WE DID A STUDY ALONG TIME AGO IN WHICH WE TRIED TO SELL BASEBALL CARDS ON EBAY AND ALL WE WOULD SHOW IS A DARK SKINNED HAND OR A LIGHT-SKINNED HAND HOLDING THE CARD. WHAT WOULD YOU PAY FOR THIS CARD? WE SAW IN THE DATA THAT PEOPLE WERE WILLING TO PAY MORE MONEY FOR THE SAME CARD IF IT IS HELD BY A WHITE HAND. SO COLORIS FIRST OF ALL EXISTS. BUT COLORISM ISN’T NECESSARILY SPECIAL. IT COULD BE ANYTHING IT COULD BE FEATURES. IT COULD BE A PERSON’S ACCENT. BUT COLORISM IS SPECIAL BECAUSE IT IS EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD. IN THE UNITED STATES, WE TALK ABOUT BLACK AND WHITE. NOW I’M HEARING THE WORD BROWN THROWN INTO IT, BUT THAT WASN’T TRUE WHEN I FIRST CAME TO THIS COUNTRY. I GREW UP IN INDIA, WHERE A FRIEND OF MINE WHO HAPPENED TO HAVE A SISTER, AND TO MY EYES, THEY LOOKED IDENTICAL IN THEIR SKIN COLOR. I WOULD SIT IN FRONT OF THEM AND LOOK FROM ONE TO THE OTHER AND TO ME THEY WERE IDENTICAL. AND THEY WOULD SAY, OF COURSE WE ARE NOT. SO-AND-SO IS SO MUCH LATER THAN I AM. THEY WOULD SAY THAT BECAUSE THE LIGHTER SKINNED GIRL WAS GOING TO REQUIRE A LOWER DOWRY TO BE PAID BY HER FATHER WHEN SHE GOT MARRIED. TINY DIFFERENCES IN COLOR GET ASSOCIATED TO DIFFERENT OUT OF MONEY THAT WILL BE PAID FOR HER WHEN SHE GETS MARRIED. THIS IS STILL TRUE. IN CULTURES LIKE INDIA AND BRAZIL, I THINK YOU SEE THESE PREJUDICES EVEN MORE. SOLEDAD: THE NEXT QUESTION IS FROM SHIRLEY. THIS IS SOMETHING PEOPLE GET STUCK ON. I THINK IT IS A GOOD IDEA TO DECONSTRUCT IT. SHE SAYS, WHY CAN’T BLACK PEOPLE BE RACIST? BECAUSE OF THE RELATIONSHIP TO POWER, RIGHT? CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT? DR. BANAJI: I THINK ROBIN DIANGELO SAID IT REALLY WELL WHEN SHE SAID IT IS ABOUT THE POWER, STUPID. I AGREE WITH THAT. BUT AS A SCIENTIST, I’M GOING TO SAY SOMETHING ABOUT HOW WHEN WE USE THE WORD RACISM, WE MUST DEFINE IT. TO US, RACISM EQUALS EXPLICIT PREJUDICE. IF A PERSON IS WILLING TO SAY, I DISLIKE PEOPLE OR I WILL NEVER LET MY DAUGHTER MARRY SOMEONE FROM THAT GROUP, TO US, THOSE ARE EXAMPLES OF EXPLICIT BIAS AND WE WOULD SAY IT WOULD BE OK TO CALL PEOPLE WHO SAY THAT RACIST. THE LIKELIHOOD THAT BLACK PEOPLE WILL SAY THINGS LIKE THAT IS VERY LOW. BUT LET’S GO AWAY FROM WHAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE SAID AND LET ME POSE THIS TO YOU. BLACK PEOPLE WERE INVOLVED IN THE SELLING OF BLACK PEOPLE INTO SLAVERY. WHAT DO YOU CALL THEM? THERE ARE BLACK DOCTORS AND WHITE DOCTORS WHO TREAT PATIENTS. THERE ARE DIFFERENCES IN THE WAY WHITE AND BLACK PEOPLE ARE TREATED IN THE HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. MANY STUDIES SHOW THAT BLACK DOCTORS’ BEHAVIOR IS BIASED IN THE SAME WAY AS A WHITE DOCTOR’S BEHAVIOR. WE ARGUE THAT IS BECAUSE BLACK DOCTORS CARRY THE THUMBPRINT OF THE CULTURE ON THEIR BRAIN. THE LOWER WORTH OF A BLACK LIFE HAS GOTTEN INTO THE HEAD OF BLACK DOCTORS. THEY MIGHT BE SOMEWH PROTECTED BECAUSE OF SIMILARITY AND SO ON, BUT NOT ENTIRELY. SO WE SHOULD BE CAREFUL NEVER TO SAY BLACK PEOPLE ARE JUST AS RACIST AS WHITE PEOPLE, NOR TO SAY A BLACK PERSON COULD NEVER BE RACIST. WHAT WOULD YOU WANT TO CALL A BLACK POLICE OFFICER WHO ACTS TOWARDS BLACK AMERICANS IN A WAY SIMILAR TO A WHITE POLICE OFFICER? WHAT WOULD YOU CALL THAT? SOLEDAD: QUESTION NUMBER THREE IS FROM CJ. WHAT DO WE SAY TO WHITE CULTURED BLACK PEOPLE? I THINK CJ MEANS BLACK PEOPLE WHO GREW UP IN WHITE COMMUNITIES, WHO THINK AND TALK AS IF THEY ARE WHITE WITH WHITE PRIVILEGE. DR. BANAJI: IT IS A DEEP QUESTION. IT CAN’T BE EASY TO BE THAT PERSON EITHER. WHEN YOU LIVE IN A CULTURE WHERE THE DIFFERENTIALS BETWEEN GROUPS ARE SO EVIDENT, I CAN IMAGINE PEOPLE FEELING LIKE IF THEY COULD JUST GET INTO THAT SYSTEM, THEY ARE GOING TO BE PROTECTED. I DO AT SOME LEVEL UNDERSTAND THE NEED TO BECOME ACCULTURATED. ON THE OTHER HAND, IF YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT ARE WE IN THIS WORLD TO DO AND WHAT ARE WE HERE TO DO FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE OUR PEOPLE AND WHO HAPPENED TO BE DISADVANTAGED -- I’VE OFTEN THOUGHT THAT THERE ARE SO MANY IDENTITIES ANY ONE OF US HAS. I HAVE THE IDENTITY OF BEING A PERSON FROM THE INDIAN SUBCONTINENT. I ALSO HAVE THE IDENTITY OF BEING A PROFESSOR AT HARVARD. BEING A WOMAN IN SCIENCE. I HAVE TRIED TO THINK ABOUT THESE DIFFERENT IDENTITIES OF MINE AND SEPARATE THE PRIVILEGED ONES FROM THE LESS PRIVILEGED ONES. MY IDENTITY AS A HARVARD PROFESSOR GIVES ME TONS OF PRIVILEGES. I DON’T WORK ON THAT. I DON’T THINK ABOUT THAT ONE AS MUCH AS I THINK ABOUT MY IDENTITY AS A WOMAN IN SCIENCE. THAT IS A FRAGILE IDENTITY. THAT CAN BE TAKEN AWAY BECAUSE THE WORLD DOESN’T BELIEVE PEOPLE WHO LOOK LIKE ME CAN SCIENTISTS. WHILE I UNDERSTAND THE DESIRE TO WANT TO PASS AND GET INTO A GROUP THAT HAS HIGHER STATUS, I THINK THAT WHEN YOU LEARN ABOUT THE HISTORY OF OUR COUNTRY, THE HISTORY OF A PEOPLE, AND IF EDUCATION WORKS AS IT IS MEANT TO, I THINK PEOPLE WILL UNDERSTAND, WHEN YOU DO BELONG TO A PARTICULAR GROUP, TO SEE DISADVANTAGE, AND TO KNOW THAT THAT IS CALLING FOR YOU, WHICH SIDE ARE YOU GOING TO BE ON? OUR PREVIOUS SPEAKERS, WHEN THEY SPOKE ABOUT WHERE DOES RESPONSIBILITY LIVE, IT LIES THE FEET OF THE NATION -- I WOULD SAY THE FEET OF ALL OF US. SOLEDAD: QUESTION NUMBER FOUR COMES FROM ROBERT. WHY IS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHITE PRIVILEGE AND CLASS PRIVILEGE NEVER ACKNOWLEDGED EXCEPT WHEN IT IS CONVENIENT TO THE SPECIFIC ARGUMENT? DR. BANAJI FROM A SCIENTIFIC POINT OF VIEW, I WOULD SAY THAT WE KNOW SO LITTLE ABOUT THESE FORMS OF PRIVILEGE. WHAT WE DO KNOW IS THAT WHEN THEY INTERSECT, SOMETHING INTERESTING GOES ON. I’VE OFTEN WONDERED ABOUT THIS. WE KNOW THAT CLASS PRIVILEGE, ONCE ACHIEVED, LET’S SAY AFRICAN-AMERICANS WHO HAVE RISEN TO POWER, WHO HAVE WEALTH, WHO HAVE EDUCATION, WHO LIVE IN NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE THERE ARE FEW OTHER BLACK INDIVIDUALS, AND SO ON -- I HAVE ALWAYS ASSUMED THAT ONCE YOU MAKE THA SWITCH, ONCE YOU MOVED INTO THAT HIGHER ECHELON OF SOCIETY, THAT NOW ALL OF THE GENERAL PRIVILEGE WILL ACCRUE TO THEM. WHEN I TALK TO MY BLACK COLLEAGUES, THAT IS NOT THE STORY I HEAR, WHICH TELLS ME THERE IS SOME KIND OF BLACK EXCEPTIONALISM HERE, THAT MY COLLEAGUES WHO ARE BLACK MEN WHO WEAR THREE-PIECE SUITS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO GET A CAB IN NEW YORK CITY, OR MY COLLEAGUE WHO WAS TRYING TO ENTER HIS OWN HOME IN CAMBRIDGE AND WAS STOPPED FROM DOING SO. PRIVILEGES SOMEHOW GOT STRIPPED AWAY BECAUSE RACE DOMINATED. ALL I WILL SAY HERE IS THAT THERE ARE MANY DIFFERENT STRANDS OF PRIVILEGE, PRIVILEGE THAT COMES TO MEN FROM BEING TALLER THAN OTHER MEN FOR EXAMPLE. THE PRIVILEGE OF HAVING A BRITISH ACCENT, BIG PRIVILEGE. I SAY TO PEOPLE, SHOULD WE DO PHONE INTERVIEWS BECAUSE FACE-TO-FACE INTERVIEWS CAN HAVE BIAS, AND I SAY, IF YOU DO PHONE INTERVIEWS, YOU WILL ONLY HI BRITISH PEOPLE. HUMANS WILL USE ANYTHING TO DISTINGUISH PEOPLE ALONG A DIMENSION OF WORTHY AND LESS WORTHY. I WOULD SIMPLY SAY, JUST KNOW THAT EVEN IF PEOPLE WHO ARE AFRICAN-AMERICAN BREAKTHROUGH AND ENTER PRIVILEGES OF CERTAIN KINDS, IT IS N CLEAR THAT THEY ARE RECEIVING THE BENEFITS OF THOSE PRIVILEGES. SOLEDAD: THE FIFTH QUESTION COMES FROM DESIREE. CHILDREN A NOT BORN RACIST, BUT THEY BECOME RACIST AND HAVE BIASES WHAT INFLUENCES THEIR BEHAVIOR TOWARD OTHER PEOPLE WHO DON’T LOOK OR SPEAK OR DRESS LIKE THEM? DR. BANAJI: THIS IS A FABULOUS QUESTION AND I BECAME INTERESTED IN IT MANY YEARS AGO NOW. I WILL SAY T DESIREE, WHO ASKED THAT QUESTION, YOU MIGHT BE SURPRISED AS TO HOW EARLY CHILDREN DO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS GOING ON IN THE WORLD AND BECOME BIASED. WHEN WE BEGAN THIS WORK, WE HAD DESIREE’S VIEW. CHILDREN ARE BORN WITHOUT BIAS, AND THEY ARE. THEY HAVEN’T EXPERIENCED THE WORLD ENOUGH TO KNOW THAT THERE ARE GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE DARK AND LIGHT-SKINNED AND SHOW ON. BUT YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT WHEN AN INFANT IS EVEN THREE MONTHS OLD, IT BEGINS TO SHOW PREFERENCES FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LIKE ITS OWN FAMILY. IF YOU ARE BORN INTO FAMILIES WITH LIGHT-SKINNED PEOPLE AROUND YOU, BABIES WILL GO TO OTHER LIGHT-SKINNED PEOPLE RATHER THAN DARK SKINNED. IF THE REVERSE IS TRUE, THE REVERSE WILL HAPPEN. THERE IS A LOVELY STUDY DONE ON ETHIOPIAN JEWS WHO MOVED TO ISRAEL, SHOWING THAT ETHIOPIAN JEWS IN ISRAEL WHO HAD CAREGIVERS OF BOTH KINDS SHOWED NO BIAS, BECAUSE THEIR WINDOW OF EXPERIENCE HAD BEEN EXPANDED TO INCLUDE THE ENTIRE RANGE. IF THEY DIDN’T HAVE THAT EXPERIENCE, I’VE GOT TO SAY, THE ROOTS OF PREJUDICE ARE BECAUSE BABIES KNOW THAT WHEN SOMETHING IS FAMILIAR, IT WILL NOT HARM YOU. WHY DO NAVIES LIKE WOMEN’S VOICES AND FACES MORE THAN MEN? IT HAPPENS, BUT ONLY IF WOMEN ARE THEIR PRIMARY CAREGIVERS. DON’T ASSUME THAT THESE BABIES ARE JUST PASSIVELY SITTING AROUND, WAITING TO ROW UP IN ORDER TO ACQUIRE IMPLICIT BIAS AND EXPLICIT BIAS. THEY ARE SPONGES, AND THEY ARE SOAKING EVERYTHING IN, AND THIS FATHER’S PARENTS,HO SAY TO ME, I NEVER TAUGHT THEM -- THIS BOTHER PARENTS, WHO SAY TO ME, I NEVER TAUGHT THEM THAT. A LAWYER TOLD ME SHE HAD HER SON WERE WALKING THROUGH GRAND CENTRAL STATION, AND HE PICKED A PIECE OF GUM OFF THE WALL AND STUCK IT IN HIS MOUTH. SHE SAID, DON’T DO THAT, THAT GUM WAS IN SOMEBODY ELSE’S MOUTH. AND HE SAID YEAH, IT COULD HAVE BEEN IN A BLACK PERSON’S MOUTH. SHE WAS AGHAST. THIS WAS A LIBERAL LAWYER WHO WORKED AT THE POVERTY LAW CENTER AND SHE SAID, HOW COULD THIS BE IN OUR HOUSE? NOT A WORD IS SET. IT IN SCHOOL, NOT A WORD IS SAID. HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN? I WANT DESIREE AND EVERYBODY TO KNOW THAT YOU ARE NOT THE ONLY INFLUENCE ON YOUR CHILD. IT IS MANY OF THE THINGS, SOLEDAD, THAT YOU SHOWED US OVER THE LAST HALF-HOUR, HOW CULTURE IMPINGES ON US. AND WE ARE LEARNERS. HUMANS LEARN. WE LEARN PATTERNS OF THINGS. AND WE KNOW IN NEW YORK CITY, WHO ARE THE PEOPLE THAT SIT AT THE NEWSPAPER STANCE. THEY LOOK SIMILAR TO EACH OTHER. AND WHO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO SEEM TO OWN GROCERY STORES? AND WHO ARE THESE PEOPLE WITH WEAK CASES WALKING INTO TALL BUILDINGS? I THINK A BABY LEARNS THIS. SO WHILE THEY ARE NOT BORN KNOWING THAT X IS GOOD AND Y IS BAD, JUST KNOW THAT THEY LEARN FROM OTHER PEOPLE. SOLEDA DR., THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ANSWERING THESE QUESTIONS. A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL THE GUESTS WHO JOINED US FOR THIS LISTENING TO HER. I WANT TO NOTE THE ENCORE PRESENTATION OF THIS SHOWWILL BE AVAILABLE AT MATTEROFFACT.TV BEGINNING AT 11:00. IF YOU HAVE SUGGESTIONS FOR FUTURE PROGRAMS, PLEASE SEND YOUR IDEAS TO THE MATTER-OF-FACT FACEBOOK PAGE. I WANT TO ISSUE A SPECIAL INVITATION FOR YOU TO JOIN ME EVERY WEEKEND ON "MATTER OF FACT WHERE WE ALWAYS HAVE CONVERSATIONS AS DIVERSE AS AMERICA. CATCH UP WITH US ON MATTEROFFACT.TV. I’M SOLEDAD O’BRIEN AND FOR ALL OF US ON THE LISTENING TOUR, HAVE A GOOD NIGHT. ♪ [CAPTIONING PERFORMED BY THE NATIONAL CAPTIONING INSTITUTE, WHICH IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ITS CAPTION CONTENT AND ACCURACY. VISIT NCICAP.ORG]